Norfolk birding (9 Viewers)

[Tideliner]

Crap Birder .



According to Roberts 1999 paper , on honey buzzards he has found birds usually
lay 10 days after nest construction , but on occasion are laying within 5 days and first eggs in nests from May 21st. With an incubation of 30 to 35 days ( depending on clutch size ) eggs could be hatching between June 20th and 25th , with 40 - 44 days for fledging July 29th - August 2nd and the young leaving the nest area August 12th-18th.

With the first sighting of our birds on the 16th of May , the female could have been sitting by May 25th and hatching could have occurred around June 25th and fledging in early August. So our first confirmed sighting of a juvenile was within the window Roberts suggests as being possible.


As for the 2014 sightings I only put sightings out when birds are seen in a wardened area to RBA and only if I see the birds myself or by a trusted watcher.

 

[crapbirder]

Honey Buzzards.

Crap Birder .



According to Roberts 1999 paper , on honey buzzards he has found birds usually
lay 10 days after nest construction , but on occasion are laying within 5 days and first eggs in nests from May 21st. With an incubation of 30 to 35 days ( depending on clutch size ) eggs could be hatching between June 20th and 25th , with 40 - 44 days for fledging July 29th - August 2nd and the young leaving the nest area August 12th-18th.

With the first sighting of our birds on the 16th of May , the female could have been sitting by May 25th and hatching could have occurred around June 25th and fledging in early August. So our first confirmed sighting of a juvenile was within the window Roberts suggests as being possible.


As for the 2014 sightings I only put sightings out when birds are seen in a wardened area to RBA and only if I see the birds myself or by a trusted watcher.

Thank you Tideliner for your comprehensive response which does clarify some of my confusion.

I too have read Roberts 1999 paper which was a preliminary to the wider-ranging paper which appeared in 2014. In the latter, Roberts gives earliest and latest first-egg dates of 18th May and 25th June, with a mean of 2nd June. As you say, the female could have been sitting by the 25th May which is well below the mean given by Roberts hence the comment in my original post.

We can argue until the cows come home about Honey Buzzard arrival dates and I fully accept that first seen date may not necessarily coincide with arrival date. However, my confusion remains over what appears to be a conflict between the date given by yourself and that to appear in the 2011 Norfolk Bird Report regarding the year Honey Buzzards were last proven to breed at Swanton Novers.

 

[James Emerson]

However, my confusion remains over what appears to be a conflict between the date given by yourself and that to appear in the 2011 Norfolk Bird Report regarding the year Honey Buzzards were last proven to breed at Swanton Novers.

The information given in the bird report can only be based on what observers submit. As Swanton Novers has no general access then it is only really the wardens that could provide a reliable account of breeding (albeit it could be assumed if recently fledged birds were seen from the watchpoint I suppose), so if perhaps in this instance no Natural England staff passed on the breeding record to the county recorders, with no reports of breeding elsewhere it was assumed that breeding had not occurred in the county?

It should also be noted that Honey Buzzard is now a Norfolk description species, so unless someone submits acceptable descriptions of these recent sightings, it might well show up in 2015 that there were no accepted sightings from Swanton Novers again.

 

[Phil Andrews]

Reports today of 4 HB at Swanton Novers from the church with 1 from the watchpoint at the same time. 2 HB reported yesterday, 1 of which has been present for 16 days.

The information given in the bird report can only be based on what observers submit. As Swanton Novers has no general access then it is only really the wardens that could provide a reliable account of breeding (albeit it could be assumed if recently fledged birds were seen from the watchpoint I suppose), so if perhaps in this instance no Natural England staff passed on the breeding record to the county recorders, with no reports of breeding elsewhere it was assumed that breeding had not occurred in the county?

It should also be noted that Honey Buzzard is now a Norfolk description species, so unless someone submits acceptable descriptions of these recent sightings, it might well show up in 2015 that there were no accepted sightings from Swanton Novers again.

Any idea what was the primary source of the sightings reported yesterday referring to multiple birds?

 

[James Emerson]

Any idea what was the primary source of the sightings reported yesterday referring to multiple birds?

I think the North-east Norfolk Bird Club twitter feed (tweeted at 14:22) https://twitter.com/NENBC_Info

 

[PYRTLE]

I think the North-east Norfolk Bird Club twitter feed (tweeted at 14:22) https://twitter.com/NENBC_Info

Interestingly that 2 of these are reported as sub-adults.....and also that from a paucity of records over recent years, as discussed, we now have a gathering of 4 birds seen on one day within a small area. Why are they suddenly now appearing at a known site in what is the middle of the incubation period? Hardly Tarifa or Falstebo, so perhaps mainly for food? A breeding pair Shirley wouldn't tolerate the presence of sub-adults....I'm not saying these are breeding at Swanton but perhaps viewer coverage has significantly increased this week - hence also the possibility of mis-id and hysteria. Puzzling even for such a secretive species.

 

[crapbirder]

Interestingly that 2 of these are reported as sub-adults.....and also that from a paucity of records over recent years, as discussed, we now have a gathering of 4 birds seen on one day within a small area. Why are they suddenly now appearing at a known site in what is the middle of the incubation period? Hardly Tarifa or Falstebo, so perhaps mainly for food? A breeding pair Shirley wouldn't tolerate the presence of sub-adults....I'm not saying these are breeding at Swanton but perhaps viewer coverage has significantly increased this week - hence also the possibility of mis-id and hysteria. Puzzling even for such a secretive species.

No wish to make any allegations involving mis-identification or mass hysteria, the simple explanation may be the fact that Honey Buzzards and indeed other non-breeding large raptors tend to move about during July and August.

 

[PYRTLE]

No wish to make any allegations involving mis-identification or mass hysteria, the simple explanation may be the fact that Honey Buzzards and indeed other non-breeding large raptors tend to move about during July and August.

That's fine, I can be mischievous sometimes as you may be aware, sometimes even cynical! I would though, be keen to know ( briefly please ) why large raptors move about....oh just read your post carefully.....yes non-breeders...penny has dropped.

Thanks, you're not that crap a birder.

 

[crapbirder]

The information given in the bird report can only be based on what observers submit. As Swanton Novers has no general access then it is only really the wardens that could provide a reliable account of breeding (albeit it could be assumed if recently fledged birds were seen from the watchpoint I suppose), so if perhaps in this instance no Natural England staff passed on the breeding record to the county recorders, with no reports of breeding elsewhere it was assumed that breeding had not occurred in the county?

It should also be noted that Honey Buzzard is now a Norfolk description species, so unless someone submits acceptable descriptions of these recent sightings, it might well show up in 2015 that there were no accepted sightings from Swanton Novers again.

Agreed, the NBR can only base its content on what observers care to submit but it this instance, I would hope the Editor will be seeking clarification from Natural England if only for the accuracy of the county records.

Thank you for the reminder that Honey Buzzard is now a description species in Norfolk. I imagine the Records Committee would be particularly interested in any submission of a post-juvenile/sub-adult/ 2 c-y (call it what you will).

 

[stuart white]

That's fine, I can be mischievous sometimes as you may be aware, sometimes even cynical! I would though, be keen to know ( briefly please ) why large raptors move about....oh just read your post carefully.....yes non-breeders...penny has dropped.

Thanks, you're not that crap a birder.

It's not cynicism Pat, i don't know anybody who has seen one at the site since 2010! until today by the sounds of it. There were lots of familiar faces today so presumably the sightings were multi observed. We had a very good candidate around 10am but it was just too distant.

Do you remember 2008, a 3rd bird turned up and the pair would spar with it on a daily basis from mid july to mid august, made seeing them so much easier!

 

[PYRTLE]

At least 18 Whimbrel on and over Cley Marshes this afternoon. Wonderful to hear their whistle coming from high up and before they flew into view against a dark grey sky. Several came down onto Pat's Pool for a wash and brush up. I'm sure there will be a few in the grassy fields around this evening.

 

[Paul Eele]

Titchwell July 11th

Today's highlights

Golden plover - 2 on fresh marsh
Spoonbill - 11 on fresh marsh
Arctic skua - 2 offshore
Green sandpiper - 1 on Patsy's reedbed
Little ringed plover - 6 on fresh marsh
Dunlin - 39 on fresh marsh
Greenshank - 2 on fresh marsh
Nuthatch - 1 around visitor centre

Paul

 

[Tideliner]

I personally did not see the 4 honey buzzards on Friday morning and I am not going to name names on a public forum, all I will say is the observations come from a well known Norfolk birder who has been watching honey buzzards for years.

Pyrtle , it’s not uncommon to have satellite honey buzzards spend long periods within the territory of a pair of breeding birds. Honey buzzards seem very tolerant of strangers, or are they always strangers? On one occasion we a juvenile with an unusual plumage with a black eye stripe and apricot flank feathers. The following spring a dark phase male ( two years later it became the new breeding male ) with two patches on each flank of unmoulted apricot feathers that flew straight into the previous years nest site with no reaction from the territory holding pair who were sitting on the nest. This bird must have been the previous years young. On another occasion we were amazed to see no less that seven honey buzzards leave the breeding wood around 10 am. It was mid July well before the young of the year would have fledged. God knows where they all came from. We have also found passage honey buzzards frequently stop off. There used to be a true black phase bird that we often saw for one day in spring and again for several days in August. We presumed this bird stopped off while on route to and from a breeding site further North. And of course on migration honey buzzards are very social birds.

Stuart I missed the 10am sighting today ( I was wading through some moth traps) but a number of experienced birders were happy with their sighting some even getting the banded tail, but I did see the 12.25- 1 pm sighting and that was a female. Of course I then went for some lunch and another sighting was made around 1.15 pm. It clouded up in the afternoon and as far as I know there were no further sightings. If any one on here has been to Clumber Park I would be very interested if there been any sightings of the 4 birds there over the last 10 days

 

[crapbirder]

Re. Honey Buzzards.

Like many others, I was not 'in the right place in the right time' in order to see the 4 Honey Buzzards reported on Friday of last week but this alone is certainly not good reason to doubt the veracity of the number observed. As stated in recent posts on this forum, non-breeding Honey Buzzards do suddenly put in an appearance at this time of year so this record should not be dismissed lightly.

The only issue I have with the record is the fact that 2 of the birds were described as sub-adult which I assume to be in other words, post-juvenile. I am aware that a number of sightings of 2nd calendar year Honey Buzzards have been claimed over the years in the UK but I'm not aware that any of these records have been substantiated. I'm sure that someone on this forum will enlighten me if this is not the case.

 

[Tideliner]

Looks like a Clumber Park honey was reported today so one theory shot down !!

 

[Johny121]

Porzana problems

Hi,

Can anyone offer any information on the reported Spotted Crake y'day at Titchwell please? Place/time/length of view.

Any info welcomed

ta

 

[Penny Clarke]

Hi,

Can anyone offer any information on the reported Spotted Crake y'day at Titchwell please? Place/time/length of view.

Any info welcomed

ta

Only showed once whilst I was there last night at 7.23pm for under a minute, not very showy at all!!! Seen from either the bank by Island Hide or from the hide itself. Not been seen today at all, but that doesn't mean to say its not there still!

Penny:girl:

 

[Johny121]

Only showed once whilst I was there last night at 7.23pm for under a minute, not very showy at all!!! Seen from either the bank by Island Hide or from the hide itself. Not been seen today at all, but that doesn't mean to say its not there still!

Penny:girl:

Elusive as ever. Thanks very much for the information and swift reply, Penny.

 

[Dawn Balmer]

Hi

Just to back up James Emerson and to encourage anyone lucky enough to see a Honey Buzzard to submit the record and description to the Norfolk County Recorder. It's so important that these records are documented for the future. Records from the Norfolk Recorders feed into the Rare Breeding Birds Panel and they can only submit what they have received and has been accepted.

If any Natural England staff are present in the wood it's very likely they have a Schedule 1 permit from NE for disturbance and should be making annual returns to NE with details of observations. Hopefully these will come to light through RBBP channels.

If you know anyone who has seen a Honey Buzzard in the last few years and is not documented in the Norfolk Bird Report, please encourage them to make a submission. Better late than never!

Thanks

 

[Paul Eele]

Titchwell July 14th

Today's highlights

Spotted redshank - 2 on fresh marsh
Dunlin - 20 on fresh marsh
Ruff - 23 on fresh marsh
Little gull - 3 on fresh marsh
Spoonbill - 2 on fresh marsh
Barn owl - 2 hunting along East Trail this morning
Common sandpiper - 3 on fresh marsh
Red crested pochard - 5 on Patsy's reedbed

Paul