Passerine - Ilkley Moor (1 Viewer)

[Richard G]

Anybody like to have a go at an ID on the small passerine in this video clip?

I have a camera trap set up to monitor Barn Owl on this site & I caught this small passerine on camera earlier in January, but it decided to be at the far end of the fence line . I've showed it to a friend & we have a possible idea what it could be, but I wondered if anyone had some ideas too.

 

[PYRTLE]

Behaviour typical of a Stonechat.

 

[dantheman]

It should be a Stonechat, although I was having trouble eliminating Black Redstart (unlikely I would think!), and agree Stonechat.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

Chat sp. Likely a Stonechat.

 

[dantheman]

Note the date and snow on the ground ...

;-)

 

[Richard G]

It should be a Stonechat, although I was having trouble eliminating Black Redstart (unlikely I would think!), and agree Stonechat.

Dan,

These are the 2 species my mate & I were debating. Stonechat were noted in this particular field last year, but Black Redstart also sprang to mind for both of us. Pity it chose to land too far away to see for certain.

The footage was taken earlier in January 2021, just after we had some snow here in Yorkshire

EDIT - Why would Black Redstart be so unlikely?

 

[RichieTwitchy]

Why not just write Black Redstart in your thread title if that's what you think it was?

I don't see the point of asking if you personally think it's something else and then start to question why it isn't the one you were thinking it was when members put forward their opinions - nothing wrong with that but just state what you think it was/is in the first place.

And don't worry about looking silly or foolish as I have many times suggested a bird and found out I was wrong, but that helps me be a better birder - and I've witnessed many seasoned birders on here rethink their ids.

I can only think it was that you didn't want to put words into other people's mouths, but believe me, the members on here aren't easily suggestible.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

EDIT - Why would Black Redstart be so unlikely?

You are a bit off the winter range and habitat for Black Redstart up there. Their winter range is more SW of you and coastal regions. Resident breeders tend to migrate to the Med for the winter.

A Stonechat is more likely therefore.

 

[Richard G]

Why not just write Black Redstart in your thread title if that's what you think it was?

I don't see the point of asking if you personally think it's something else and then start to question why it isn't the one you were thinking it was when members put forward their opinions - nothing wrong with that but just state what you think it was/is in the first place.

And don't worry about looking silly or foolish as I have many times suggested a bird and found out I was wrong, but that helps me be a better birder - and I've witnessed many seasoned birders on here rethink their ids.

I can only think it was that you didn't want to put words into other people's mouths, but believe me, the members on here aren't easily suggestible.

Wasn't my intention at all to question the ID - possibly didn't come across quite right over the internet - was more my wanting to know why one over the other as I'm still very much learning. I had initially thought Stonechat, but something didn't sit quite right, and Black Redstart popped into my head. My more experienced friend felt it was potentially Black Redstart.

With hindsight I agree I should have asked/mentioned what my thoughts were, so apologies

 

[Deb Burhinus]

was more my wanting to know why one over the other as I'm still very much learning

See post 8 🙂

 

[PYRTLE]

Another behavioural point to perhaps consider is that Black Redstart prefer to loiter near buildings whereas Stonechat is a bird of open countryside, popping up on fences, wires, shrub tops.

 

[Larry Sweetland]

In my experience Stonechats tend to flick their wings a lot when they land or change position, whereas Black Redstarts judder their tails instead. I'm getting a much more Stonechatty Vibe off this bird's movements.

 

[lou salomon]

fully agree with larry. fast wing flicks are typical for stonechat, a black redstart moves differently. it's quite definitely a stonechat.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

Richard FYI - See here for the Winter distribution of Black Redstart - very much concentrated in coastal areas and the SW of the UK (For non-UK birders Ilkley Moor is in the NW of England). My brother lived in Ilkley for many years and I don’t recall ever seeing Black Redstart in or near there! BR would be very unlikely this time of year and I am not sure there are any breeding pairs around there anymore?

Winter Atlas

Map Store Viewer

app.bto.org

(Breeding now very restricted)

Map Store Viewer

app.bto.org

(Btw yes, it is a Stonechat but Richard was asking why a Black redstart is so unlikely)

 

[RichieTwitchy]

Wasn't my intention at all to question the ID - possibly didn't come across quite right over the internet - was more my wanting to know why one over the other as I'm still very much learning. I had initially thought Stonechat, but something didn't sit quite right, and Black Redstart popped into my head. My more experienced friend felt it was potentially Black Redstart.

With hindsight I agree I should have asked/mentioned what my thoughts were, so apologies

Absolutely no need for apologies.

Glad you got it sorted.

Told you these guys know their stuff

 

[Rotherbirder]

Agree with Stonechat but, counter to some comments, winter distribution does not rule out Black Redstart; there was a well-photographed bird NW of Sheffield a couple of days ago.

RB

 

[Deb Burhinus]

Agree with Stonechat but, counter to some comments, winter distribution does not rule out Black Redstart; there was a well-photographed bird NW of Sheffield a couple of days ago.

RB

If you are referring to the one at Birley Edge further South that’s quite a scarcity - there have been one or two individuals as far North as the OP bird but they have been coastal. You are right, Black Redstart is not automatically ruled out on location but would nonetheless be much more unlikely than Stonechat.

 

[Lawts]

A northern occurrence, (Yorkshire) inland wouldn't be so unusual for Black Redstart.

What would make it less likely is the habitat.

 

[Joseph Bouvier]

It is probably a stonechat because of the time of year and location, but in the video the bird seems to bob up and down repetitively, which I have found to be caracteristic of black redstarts. It does look almost too small to be BR though. I wouldn't say the habitat was wrong for a BR, they seem to be quite versatile over here, you see them everywhere!

 

[lou salomon]

i'm confident that it isn't a black redstart on its fast flicking movements. i'm also confident it is a Saxicola rubicola (superspecies, could also be a siberian, theoretically).