Pipit ID. Shirza, Iran (1 Viewer)

[Dorna Mojab]

Dear all,

This pipit was observed on February 14th, 2024 in Shiraz. In my opinion, it can be a Buff-bellied Pipit (Siberian).
Any opinions can be helpful.

Thank you
Dorna

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

Hi Dorna, it's surely not a Siberian Buff-bellied, the underpart streaking too pale and poorly defined, wrong face/head pattern including, in particular, well marked supercilium, dark eyestripe terminating with dark spot in front of eye + malar line very weak/absent, upperparts too well marked including presence of narrow pale tramlines, + bill is too strong. Conclusion, its just a Water Pipit (taxon?) with unusually pale/aberrant bare parts enhanced by the fact that its rather brightly lit.

Grahame

 

[MJB]

Hi Dorna, it's surely not a Siberian Buff-bellied, the underpart streaking too pale and poorly defined, wrong face/head pattern including, in particular, well marked supercilium, dark eyestripe terminating with dark spot in front of eye + malar line very weak/absent, upperparts too well marked including presence of narrow pale tramlines, + bill is too strong. Conclusion, its just a Water Pipit (taxon?) with unusually pale/aberrant bare parts enhanced by the fact that its rather brightly lit.

Grahame

The taxon ID, as you say, isn't clear. The expected ssp on migration in southern Iran (Shiraz being in the northern part of that region) is blakistoni, though migrant coutelli from its eastern wintering population in SE Asia may well be encountered on its way to breed in the montane habitat around the Caspian.
MJB

 

[kuzeycem]

The taxon ID, as you say, isn't clear. The expected ssp on migration in southern Iran (Shiraz being in the northern part of that region) is blakistoni, though migrant coutelli from its eastern wintering population in SE Asia may well be encountered on its way to breed in the montane habitat around the Caspian.
MJB

I doubt coutelli would venture anywhere near SE Asia?

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

Water Pipit does not winter/occur anywhere in SE Asia.

Grahame

 

[MJB]

Water Pipit does not winter/occur anywhere in SE Asia.

Grahame

I was referring, perhaps too broadly, to the IUCN/BirdLife map showing that its wintering grounds reach Myanmar, northern Laos and the border with northernmost Vietnam. That wintering area also includes south-central China.

The Asia Society declares: "Southeast Asia consists of eleven countries that reach from eastern India to China, and is generally divided into “mainland” and “island” zones ", and most maps titled 'South-east Asia' currently offered for sale include Myanmar, Laos and Vietnam, though only about half included southern China. Google Maps even includes Afghanistan and the countries between it and Papua New Guinea.

Clearly, there is much disagreement or uncertainty about what comprises South-east Asia, but I'd be happy to be advised of a suitable regional and neutral-sounding term that would include Myanmar and Laos and also has been generally accepted by those who are involved with bird breeding and wintering areas.
MJB

I doubt coutelli would venture anywhere near SE Asia?

Yes, I should have taken more time and care to explain that coutelli winters in SW Asia, but blakistoni is the taxon that winters as far south as northern Laos and Myanmar.
MJB

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

I was referring, perhaps too broadly, to the IUCN/BirdLife map showing that its wintering grounds reach Myanmar, northern Laos and the border with northernmost Vietnam. That wintering area also includes south-central China.

The Asia Society declares: "Southeast Asia consists of eleven countries that reach from eastern India to China, and is generally divided into “mainland” and “island” zones ", and most maps titled 'South-east Asia' currently offered for sale include Myanmar, Laos and Vietnam, though only about half included southern China. Google Maps even includes Afghanistan and the countries between it and Papua New Guinea.

Clearly, there is much disagreement or uncertainty about what comprises South-east Asia, but I'd be happy to be advised of a suitable regional and neutral-sounding term that would include Myanmar and Laos and also has been generally accepted by those who are involved with bird breeding and wintering areas.
MJB

Yes, I should have taken more time and care to explain that coutelli winters in SW Asia, but blakistoni is the taxon that winters as far south as northern Laos and Myanmar.
MJB

Mike, ornithologically, the SE Asian region is generally considered to include Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Vietnam, Cambodia and Peninsular (Mainland) Malaysia, as covered by Birds of South-East Asia (Robson 2015). Water Pipit does not appear in the latest version (Second Edition) and, AFAIK, there are no recent published records from anywhere in the region, including, Myanmar, Laos and Vietnam.

IUCN maps are not always reliable and that is the case here. If you look at the Data Table it is not listed for Myanmar, Laos or Vietnam and I believe this still to be the case Water Pipit (Anthus spinoletta) - BirdLife species factsheet

Suggest the ebird map https://ebird.org/species/watpip1?siteLanguage=en_GB gives a better idea of distribution. Water Pipit would appear absent from much of S China but regularly winters to W Yunnan so a (future) occurrence from N Myanmar would seem highly plausible.

Grahame

 

[DMW]

For anybody who wants to link faunal regions with political boundaries, Burma is particularly problematic, spanning the edge of the Palearctic to the Sundaic.