Sand-Plover identification, Virginia, USA (3 Viewers)

[macrourus]

Pfiuuuuu :t: I'm happy I'm not going mad definitively! I was the only one with Ottavio Janni beliving in Italy that this bird its a Kentish Plover ! But nobody agreed and all thought about a Lesser SP or a GSand Plover .... so I was searching a foreigners expertise opinion! That's why in my first message I wrote "plover" without specifing any kind... But I reported the fact about the observer and the raction in Italy,m to sound as more objective as possible, not to show I wanted to influence nobody!
Thansk Killian! I've found also several mis-id Kentish on the web for LSP... The bill its the best key-character on this bird as in the others. Regarding the pailish collar, I think this may be shown also by GSP and LSP sometimes, mostly in abraded birds: indeed, when they move the head down, or in front, they show the base of each feather that is pailish...so the tip its abraded or darkish but the base its pale and there is a ghosting appearance of a palish collar (as opposite for example to loreal stripe in for ex. Richard's and Tawny when the darkish base of the feathers its shown depending on head angle...)

THANKS KILLIAN !!

 

[rockfowl]

Regarding the pailish collar, I think this may be shown also by GSP and LSP sometimes, mostly in abraded birds: indeed, when they move the head down, or in front, they show the base of each feather that is pailish...so the tip its abraded or darkish but the base its pale and there is a ghosting appearance of a palish collar (as opposite for example to loreal stripe in for ex. Richard's and Tawny when the darkish base of the feathers its shown depending on head angle...)

I think we all go a little mad sometimes!

Regarding the pale collar - http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__Dq5_ABpF...nd+Plover_Teluk+Air+Tawar_190909_DSCN6669.jpg

Though I wouldn't argue with you or KM regarding its Id :smoke:

 

[KM1]

Of course, both sand plovers in non-breeding plumage do sometimes have a fairly well-developed white collar (in my experience it usually appears to be a result of fading, but perhaps some have it even when fresh?). However, it is a little unusual. Given that the Italian claim is of a vagrant sand plover, I think it first needs to be established that commoner and much more likely confusion-species have been ruled out. In this case, the video evidence strongly suggests the bird is a Kentish Plover. The shape, proportions, at all times apparently small, fine, pointed bill, light ear coverts and extensively light crown establish this pretty conclusively, in my opinion. I have been caught out once or twice myself by the odd Kentish Plover among (but not directly alongside) Greaters, so I have considerable sympathy for the observer!

Killian Mullarney

 

[macrourus]

Killian,

as usual your (both9 reply its a perfect balance of skill and elegance (kindness)... if you give me your permission i will copy this to EBN Italia forum, where I wrote was a Kentish Plover, and also to lucio maniscalco who is a young but really good birder (he found with me 2nd Laughing Gull in Italy, and several vagrants-good one ! abnd also its very skilled) who would be happy to know my opinion its made sure by KM and also about his words on potential mystakes on that. Ottavio Janni (coeligena in this forum) and me were thinking also to write a small paper for our birding magazine called Quaderni di Birdwatching (you may find info on www.ebnitalia.it a nice webpage) ....
The pale collar its mostly visible in faded birds as I reported (and K agree) as the darskish tip of the nape its weared off and the pale father base (barbule and nearby) are shown better.... But may be also in some fresh birds when a pale tips its typical...but not enough experience on that to may comment somehow.

I think the ID of the Italian bird was mainly based (when discussing with coeligena) on jiizz (smaller head and fatter body, gait etc.), forehead and mostly on bill structure.

Thanks again to all and a very formative discussion

Andrea


PS. leaving in few days to S Sinai for raptors, but also several plovers ;-)

 

[macrourus]

And thanks Rackfowl to post this interesting photos (surely not abraded bird!!!) I think this should be shown or at least discussed in modern field guides !!!!

AND YES ALL US FORTUNATELY SOMETIMES GO MAD !! OTHERWISE NO REAL FUN (I went mad oftne in recent years in some passerines and terns...no raptors yet ;-) always a first time though :-(

 

[macrourus]

And thanks Rackfowl to post this interesting photos (surely not abraded bird!!!) I think this should be shown or at least discussed in modern field guides !!!!

AND YES ALL US FORTUNATELY SOMETIMES GO MAD B !! OTHERWISE NO REAL FUN (I went mad oftne in recent years in some passerines and terns...no raptors yet ;-) always a first time though :-(o:smoke: