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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

So I took the plunge... (1 Viewer)

Re 8 vs 10, It’s very common here to read that. I’ve commented too many times. I confess I fear many BFers see a bit of shake and throw up their hands rather than work with it, learn the tricks, which really aren’t so tricky anyway. Then what do I know?

in addition to better egos the NL also has better ergos. Insert smiley face thing. I have shopped SFL 840 vs NL832. Thought I could be happy birding with either. Weight about the same for those two. I do notice the weight diff between my EL1042 and NL832 sure, which would be similar to the two you name, but don’t see in the list of comparable attributes it’s such a big thing. The FOVsss of the NL 1042 re the SfL 10 seem the more useful comparison.
OuncepaTom ,

That "ego" was not mine but Apple's Safari autocorrect, which is getting annoying but I can't turn it off despite unchecking "check spelling and grammar" in the edit menu. That was supposed to be "ergos." It apparently also automatically converts grams to ounces. :)

The built-in "trick" with the NL is the head rest. I'd be interested in hearing how well that works. If it work well for most users, an aftermarket universal head rest that could be adapted to most 10x and 12x bins would be a hot product to develop for an enterprising bino lover.

It's easier to steady my bins for stargazing since the weight is shifted onto my face, and I can also prop up my arms up with pillows on my lawn chair. But for bird watching, I've got to find a tree trunk to stand against or a nearby low lying branch to rest my elbows on. That's not always possible in every birding environment.

What do you know? Apparently tricks to steady a 10x bins, please share.

Borck
 
OuncepaTom ,

That "ego" was not mine but Apple's Safari autocorrect, which is getting annoying but I can't turn it off despite unchecking "check spelling and grammar" in the edit menu. That was supposed to be "ergos." It apparently also automatically converts grams to ounces. :)

The built-in "trick" with the NL is the head rest. I'd be interested in hearing how well that works. If it work well for most users, an aftermarket universal head rest that could be adapted to most 10x and 12x bins would be a hot product to develop for an enterprising bino lover.

It's easier to steady my bins for stargazing since the weight is shifted onto my face, and I can also prop up my arms up with pillows on my lawn chair. But for bird watching, I've got to find a tree trunk to stand against or a nearby low lying branch to rest my elbows on. That's not always possible in every birding environment.

What do you know? Apparently tricks to steady a 10x bins, please share.

Borck
Borck,

I guessed, was just trying to have some fun. Gotta love spellcheck. Irony is I turn it off and still have to go edit my mistakes... Still might we dare think Swaros come with a bit of ego installed?

Steadying 10s (or in my experience lightweight 8s as well), with whatever brace you can find is a big one. I agree. Bridges, trees, boulders. I look for those. Sit, elbows on knees.

To I think flexibility in thinking about my hold and body position matters. Terrain is never, (or mostly never), perfectly flat. Where do my feet have to go for stability? Then adjust body, arms and hands to find balance. Dont "sweat", be locked into things like those little thumb grooves on the bottom of the barrels on ELs for instance. They serve nicely as reference points, but are not required hand positions. Counterintuitive maybe but move, change position, to find stability.

The comment re lightweight 8s matter is relevant. The more the magnification the more it seems weight is a help. I'm old school and still like to keep the exit pupil around 4mm, not so much because of comfortable eye position, but because it helps with light in dim conditions, brush, marsh grass, underslung mud banks all shielded from light even mid day. Keeping to 4mm EP with a 10 means a 40/42. And just so happens the attendant weight is a help. RYO harness solves the issue with carrying. Its only 8 ounces or so. Trigger fingers regularly pull 3 pounds or more. This of course might be a knock on the lightness of SFL 1040. (haven't tried it).

Lastly and the most hard to explain (tried recently here), is a mental thing. When I locate a bird I want to see, having gone through all the above, my mind bears down, I focus, ignore the inner voice that wants to give up. I stare... Sorry Im not explaining that well.

Have never tried the brace.

Tom
 
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OuncepaTom ,

That "ego" was not mine but Apple's Safari autocorrect, which is getting annoying but I can't turn it off despite unchecking "check spelling and grammar" in the edit menu. That was supposed to be "ergos." It apparently also automatically converts grams to ounces. :)

The built-in "trick" with the NL is the head rest. I'd be interested in hearing how well that works. If it work well for most users, an aftermarket universal head rest that could be adapted to most 10x and 12x bins would be a hot product to develop for an enterprising bino lover.

It's easier to steady my bins for stargazing since the weight is shifted onto my face, and I can also prop up my arms up with pillows on my lawn chair. But for bird watching, I've got to find a tree trunk to stand against or a nearby low lying branch to rest my elbows on. That's not always possible in every birding environment.

What do you know? Apparently tricks to steady a 10x bins, please share.

Borck
It seems Swarovski first added the forehead rest to the BTX spotting scope ocular. Next it has been applied to the NL Pure binocular line. I use the NL Pure 10x42 with the forehead rest. Nearly always I use it with the forehead rest (it can be adjusted over a wide range from too much to not touching at all). This forehead rest has made me very comfortable using a 10x due to the three point stabilization of the eyes/glasses and the forehead. I use the forehead rest equally comfortably whether with bare eyes, contacts, or glasses on the 10x. I also appreciate the 4.2 mm exit pupil and 18 mm eye relief as the view is grabbed quickly on raising the binocular to the eyes no matter whether wearing glasses or not. While I also gladly use a Zeiss Victory Pocket 8x25 with 3.1 mm exit pupil, I appreciate the convenience of the larger exit pupil of the NL Pure 10x42 even though my eye pupil is perhaps 2.5 mm in most daytime viewing.

While not all binoculars need a forehead rest, two years of using it on the NL Pure 10x42 have left me surprised that forehead rests have not been common previously. The forehead rest may not be an "essential" for everyone but the combination of forehead rest and FOV have moved me into 10x in the NL Pure 10x42.
 
Both posts resonate with me.

I have no trouble letting go of things I don’t use - but sometimes I need time to figure out what I use the most instead of some idealistic pseudo pragmatic view. Last couple of years the decision process has matured a little.

I do have one bino I very seldom use, the Swaro BTX, but I really, really like using it the few times I do and I think I would regret letting it go.
I use all my binoculars on a regular basis but it depends on my mood, the time of the year and geografical location which ones i use the most. I had two houses before in different countries so i “needed” two sets of binoculars. The one i use the least at this moment is the Zeiss 15x60 B GAT because i prefer to use it on a tripod and the apartment i live in at the moment is somewhat small and my wife finds it take too much space haha. Also i am in my 7x period, so relaxed….
 
So, the big question with 10x bins even if they have a wide FOV is can you hold them steady?

Ergonomics and weight play a big role in this. I can't hold the 10x42 SE steady but I can with the Nikon 10x35 E2 as long as my back is braced. I have shaky hands, so ergos and weight are even more important to me even with 8x bins. I traded my 8x42 EDG because I couldn't hold it steady. I traded for an 8x32 EDG, which I can hold steady because they are lighter and I can wrap my fingers from both hands around the barrels, which I couldn't with the fat barrel 8x42.

Even when the ergos are agreeable to my hands, I find that heavier bins initially give me a steadier view until my arms tire and then they start shaking.
I have a pair of Leica Duovid 8-12x42 and can hold it still at 12x because of the egos ;), it‘s a very dense/compact bino with short barrels and it is also a somewhat heavier binocular (1 kg). I experience less shake then with my Swaro Habicht 10x40, which is much lighter.
 
... an aftermarket universal head rest that could be adapted to most 10x and 12x bins would be a hot product to develop for an enterprising bino lover.
I'm even surprised that it hasn't been done yet !!!.... I saw the price a few days ago, and it has increased, almost to 150€ today !!!!
It's ridiculous !
 
......... I also appreciate the 4.2 mm exit pupil and 18 mm eye relief as the view is grabbed quickly on raising the binocular to the eyes no matter whether wearing glasses or not. While I also gladly use a Zeiss Victory Pocket 8x25 with 3.1 mm exit pupil, I appreciate the convenience of the larger exit pupil of the NL Pure 10x42 even though my eye pupil is perhaps 2.5 mm in most daytime viewing.
................
Having both the VP 825 and EL1042, my points re shake relating to weight, (at least as much as X), and EP being not just about eye comfort come from that pairing. The new NL 832s sorta solves those issues, for what thats worth.
 
I know do not feel as bad about to many pairs of anything..:) love it...



View attachment 1493423
Yet, you only have one bicycle. Oh, wait a minute, I just hit enlarged the photos. Wow! It's a Trek Madone Butterfly!
Contemplate no longer. When don't use your binoculars regularly and you put them on display in a curio cabinet, then you're a collector. :)
I had to leave my curio cabinet behind when I moved since it was too heavy to lift, so I am no longer a collector. Now if I don't use it, I lose it (give it away or sell it).

At the height of my binomania I owned 25 binoculars. Steve Moore (mooreorless who has been MIA from BF since Nov) took a photo of them on a large wooden table I had in my backyard where we used to test them with a 1951 USAF resolution test chart and a 3x Swarovski booster.

In 2008 during the Great Recession, I instituted a new policy, whereby if I buy a new bin, I have to sell one. I still have 10, but a couple are duplicate samples of the same binoculars. So really eight. I bought a couple bins last year, so I sold a couple. I want to buy a couple more bins this year, so two more will have to go. Tough though, since both bins are collector's items I could never replace.

I may have had a lot of binocualrs at one point (though only a few were "alphas"), but I never considred myself a true collector since even the old porros I bought, I used. However, there's a Brit named Simon who is a true binoculars collector and historian.

In his review of the evolution of the Nikon 8x30, he did miss one iteration. It was v 1 of the Nikon 8x30 E2. which I owned three samples. It had a gray body and thin, flimsy rubber covers that came loose after the slightest exposure to heat and humidity. He also needs to update his video to include the 100th Anniversary Edition (which I have) and the 8x30 E2 v 3 (82xxxx), which has Nikon's latest glass and coatings (the last sample in the video was an 80xxxx).

Here's the video...

 
I have a pair of Leica Duovid 8-12x42 and can hold it still at 12x because of the egos ;), it‘s a very dense/compact bino with short barrels and it is also a somewhat heavier binocular (1 kg). I experience less shake then with my Swaro Habicht 10x40, which is much lighter.
Osmosis (damned autocorrect!),

It would probably work the other way for me since I find porros easier to hold steady due their larger "real estate" and becuause heavier bins tend to make my hands shake after my Popeye-before-the-spinach arms tire.

Brock
 
Borck,

I guessed, was just trying to have some fun. Gotta love spellcheck. Irony is I turn it off and still have to go edit my mistakes... Still might we dare think Swaros come with a bit of ego installed?

Steadying 10s (or in my experience lightweight 8s as well), with whatever brace you can find is a big one. I agree. Bridges, trees, boulders. I look for those. Sit, elbows on knees.

To I think flexibility in thinking about my hold and body position matters. Terrain is never, (or mostly never), perfectly flat. Where do my feet have to go for stability? Then adjust body, arms and hands to find balance. Dont "sweat", be locked into things like those little thumb grooves on the bottom of the barrels on ELs for instance. They serve nicely as reference points, but are not required hand positions. Counterintuitive maybe but move, change position, to find stability.

The comment re lightweight 8s matter is relevant. The more the magnification the more it seems weight is a help. I'm old school and still like to keep the exit pupil around 4mm, not so much because of comfortable eye position, but because it helps with light in dim conditions, brush, marsh grass, underslung mud banks all shielded from light even mid day. Keeping to 4mm EP with a 10 means a 40/42. And just so happens the attendant weight is a help. RYO harness solves the issue with carrying. Its only 8 ounces or so. Trigger fingers regularly pull 3 pounds or more. This of course might be a knock on the lightness of SFL 1040. (haven't tried it).

Lastly and the most hard to explain (tried recently here), is a mental thing. When I locate a bird I want to see, having gone through all the above, my mind bears down, I focus, ignore the inner voice that wants to give up. I stare... Sorry Im not explaining that well.

Have never tried the brace.

Tom
I appreciate you having fun with me, as I hope you do me with you (Ouncepa :).

I think you explained it well. In fact, I'd like to start a thread about this subject, otherwise, these gems are going be buired in this thread and since this is somewhat off topic to the OP.

In a setting where I'm watching birds like the open field near the sumac trees and berry bushes, which I posted a photos of elsewhere, I take a portable chair with me that I sling over my shoulder (I have to hike up near the top of the ridge, I'm guessing about 800 ft. at that point, top if 1,100 ft.). My arms and hands get shaky after a hike since I use trekking poles.

There's a power line pole in the middle of the field, which runs along the ridge, so I set up my portable chair near the pole and lean my back up agianst it (the chair has no back). I find that having my back supported helps steady my view through binoculars, but it's not always easy to find a tree or another vertical structure in the open woods to lean on. In the deep woods I can, but I don't often see birds in the deep woods, only deer and deer ticks.

I was just outside the house for a few minutes, it was cold and windy but it got sunny and milder in the late afternoon, and the turkey vultures and black vultures come to sleep in the pine trees on the hill in back of my neighgbor's house.

There's a telephone pole nearby I leaned against to steady my hands since I find I shake more when I'm looking at birds high in the trees than I do on the ground or in the bushes. This happened right after I read your post. I adjusted my grip as you suggested. I putt my thumbs back and changed my finger hold from around the barrels to the sides of the barrels. It helped steady the image! I couldn't use that grip all day since I'd get Carpal Tunnel with my thumbs back all day, but for short periods, it would work.

I was using my 8x32 EDG, which I usually hold by wrapping my fingers around the barrels and crossing my thumbs underneath by the shallow thumb indents. But at that step angle, the thumb back grip worked better.

The black vultures were farther away on the top of a vacant industrial building at the bottom of the street. 10x or 12x would have helped in that case. I've seen black vultures fairly close up when a pair perched on the top of the Knights of Columbus building up the block. Much nicer to look at than the hairless faced turkey vultures (how do they keep warm in the winter with no hair on the face or heads?).

I've never seen so many vultures even when I lived out in the country for two years as I do here in Bellefonte Boro. I counted 29 circling overhead at one time. They'd need to find a dead deer to find all of them, and there are no deer in this residental area.

The first thing I tried was a monopod, which I had great hope for, but all it did is transmit the "bad vibrations" from my hands to the monopod to the bins.

I have an "essential tremor" that runs in my family. My grandfather's hands got so shaky when he got older that he had to drink soup by slurping it from the bowl, because if he used a spoon, he'd spill it. My mom's hands also got shaky when she got older, but unlike Parkinson's where your hands shake when you're resting them, with esstential tremor, they shake when you hold something of significant weight. Her hands shook when she picked up her glass or cup to drink milk or coffee. Coffee's probably not a good idea if you have shaky hands.

Thansk for the tips!
Brock
 
I wish we had "stickies" like some other forums do. Some subjects just never go away, albeit's potentially mostly newer folks who dont know, haven't searched, or read long enough. There are a few regulars who seem to like the dialogue, never tire of it, but for many/most when the same convo turns up again and again...

Maybe sumpin like dis: (spellcheck hates words like sumpin)

8 vs 10.... really?
FOV, which is your favorite? (and why)
DOF, the facts...
Glare - are you sure?
Fieldpro - better mousetrap or solution in search of problem

We are wandering but ask me about the turkey vulture I took in the helmet riding a motorcycle on Hwy !.
 
I wish we had "stickies" like some other forums do. Some subjects just never go away, albeit's potentially mostly newer folks who dont know, haven't searched, or read long enough. There are a few regulars who seem to like the dialogue, never tire of it, but for many/most when the same convo turns up again and again...

Maybe sumpin like dis: (spellcheck hates words like sumpin)

8 vs 10.... really?
FOV, which is your favorite? (and why)
DOF, the facts...
Glare - are you sure?
Fieldpro - better mousetrap or solution in search of problem

We are wandering but ask me about the turkey vulture I took in the helmet riding a motorcycle on Hwy !.
HAHAHA... I once almost got knocked off moto by a TV. We'll have to start a thread - I mean it's bird related, no? :unsure:
 
8 vs 10.... really?
FOV, which is your favorite? (and why)
DOF, the facts...
Glare - are you sure?
Fieldpro - better mousetrap or solution in search of problem
EL Focuser different when changing direction...
Something is rattling on the FL...
AFOV...confusing information...
Fucking eyecups on the Conquest...
Alpha vs. Premium...

Andreas
 
I use all my binoculars on a regular basis but it depends on my mood, the time of the year and geografical location which ones i use the most. I had two houses before in different countries so i “needed” two sets of binoculars. The one i use the least at this moment is the Zeiss 15x60 B GAT because i prefer to use it on a tripod and the apartment i live in at the moment is somewhat small and my wife finds it take too much space haha. Also i am in my 7x period, so relaxed….
Mmmmm... lessee...give up my wife or my Zeiss 15x60 B GAT? If you knew my ex, you would dump the wife and keep the Zeiss. :)

I had a Zeiss Jena 8x50 Octarem, which weighed 40 ounces but felt half the weight due to the excellent weight distribution. However, like the 8x32 EL, the Octarem's had a fatal flaw--veiling glare. With my ex, the fatal flaw was a glaring stare at other men.

I've never looked through a Zeiss 15x60, but it had been on my Wish LIst for a long time. The increasing cloudy and light polluted skies at my location forced me to travel farther for dark skies, so I crossed it off my list. Instead I used a Nikon 8-16x40 XL Zoom. Very sharp to the edge. I used them for stargazing on a heavy duty Bogen tripod with a pistol grip ball head. Way more support than it needed, but I bought the tripod with a 15x60 in mind.

The XL Zooms are so sharp, you could see the Buddha's belly button a half mile away. Not sure why he didn't zoom in on it.


Despite being a diehard porro lover, with the dearth of high quality poros available and a plethora of high quality roofs, I became seduced into buying an alpha roof. First an EL then an EDG. It was an existential crisis. Without an alpha, did I really exist? Only on the "OTHER" binoculars forums. :)

The steadiest views I get now are through my Fujinon 6x30 FMTR-SX. It's like holding an IS bin. Super sharp, contrasty views, 8.5* FOV, sharp almost to the edge, very good color rendition, and it shows the best 3-D views I've seen through binoculars. A Viewaster couldn't beat it.

But it has IF EPs, so it's of limited of use for birding, so either I find a use for it or it gets sold. I better take up boating. :)

Brock
 
It seems Swarovski first added the forehead rest to the BTX spotting scope ocular. Next it has been applied to the NL Pure binocular line. I use the NL Pure 10x42 with the forehead rest. Nearly always I use it with the forehead rest (it can be adjusted over a wide range from too much to not touching at all). This forehead rest has made me very comfortable using a 10x due to the three point stabilization of the eyes/glasses and the forehead. I use the forehead rest equally comfortably whether with bare eyes, contacts, or glasses on the 10x. I also appreciate the 4.2 mm exit pupil and 18 mm eye relief as the view is grabbed quickly on raising the binocular to the eyes no matter whether wearing glasses or not. While I also gladly use a Zeiss Victory Pocket 8x25 with 3.1 mm exit pupil, I appreciate the convenience of the larger exit pupil of the NL Pure 10x42 even though my eye pupil is perhaps 2.5 mm in most daytime viewing.

While not all binoculars need a forehead rest, two years of using it on the NL Pure 10x42 have left me surprised that forehead rests have not been common previously. The forehead rest may not be an "essential" for everyone but the combination of forehead rest and FOV have moved me into 10x in the NL Pure 10x42.
Good to hear it works! Sometimes gadgets manufactures design don't work like the slotted sun shield objective covers I bought from B&H that were supposed to cut down on glare but actually made it worse and dimmed the view, or some that do work like the Field Pro package, but not everybody likes.

I'm sure Swarovski patented their head rest design, but like open bridge binoculars, it might be too general a design that could be copied in some other form without patent infringement. I hope so, because I find myself growing increasingly dissatified with 8x in most wild bird situations. I can get close enough with neighborhood birds who are used to people. In fact, where I used to live, chickdees ate suflower seeds out of my hand (can't beat that close view!). But birds in the wild tend to fly away when I get closer than their comfort zone.

I found this video on how to get close to birds without scaring them away. It was made by a bird photographer but his tips would work equally well if you're carrying a tripod and spotting scope or large binoculars. I'm going to try his recommendations the next time I go birding and see if they work for me.

I can't post a link to the video since it gets blocked but if you get on YouTube, type in the search bar "How to Approach and Get Close to Birds (Bird Photography)," and you will find the video.

Brock
 
After a walk in the woods of Mortirolo pass/Mount Serottini, I'm very happy I bought the NL 10x42 instead of the 8x42, all the little birds (uccellini) were chirping on top of huge spruces...
 
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I birded for years with a 10x42 and loved it. People would say, oh...you need FOV etc etc... But, no.... The 10x Zeiss HT I had and the Leica Noctovid did just perfectly. That would go for the woods/trees as well as the open areas. It really just depends on your familiarity with the 10x. Once you get to know it, it is easy to use. Now, as I get older, I do like a smaller binocular than the full sized 8 or 10x42, but I am happy to see you like the NL...good for you !
 
Mmmmm... lessee...give up my wife or my Zeiss 15x60 B GAT? If you knew my ex, you would dump the wife and keep the Zeiss. :)
Hahaha
I've never looked through a Zeiss 15x60, but it had been on my Wish LIst for a long time.
The Zeiss has a high wow factor, i took it from my bookshelf this morning and compared it for one hour with my Habicht 8x30 GA IF, Habicht 10x40 and the new Kidd on the block FL 7x42. Compared to the Habicht’s both the Zeiss have a distinct yellow cast. The 15x60 more than the FL. I never noticed it before I think. It’s not annoying but the yellow undertone is there.
From all my binoculars the small Habicht Porro with rubber armor feels the most comfortable to handle. Also i like the focus of the big Zeiss and Habicht 10x40 very much because they are very precise.
The increasing cloudy and light polluted skies at my location forced me to travel farther for dark skies, so I crossed it off my list. Instead I used a Nikon 8-16x40 XL Zoom. Very sharp to the edge. I used them for stargazing on a heavy duty Bogen tripod with a pistol grip ball head. Way more support than it needed, but I bought the tripod with a 15x60 in mind.

The XL Zooms are so sharp, you could see the Buddha's belly button a half mile away. Not sure why he didn't zoom in on it.

Fascinating binocular and interesting video, reminds me Kathmandu. Gonna make noodle soup for breakfast.
Despite being a diehard porro lover, with the dearth of high quality poros available and a plethora of high quality roofs, I became seduced into buying an alpha roof. First an EL then an EDG. It was an existential crisis. Without an alpha, did I really exist? Only on the "OTHER" binoculars forums. :)

The steadiest views I get now are through my Fujinon 6x30 FMTR-SX. It's like holding an IS bin. Super sharp, contrasty views, 8.5* FOV, sharp almost to the edge, very good color rendition, and it shows the best 3-D views I've seen through binoculars. A Viewaster couldn't beat it.

But it has IF EPs, so it's of limited of use for birding, so either I find a use for it or it gets sold. I better take up boating. :)
A rare bird, this 6x30 FMTR-SX, looks great: Fujinon 6x30 FMTR-SX - Cloudy Days & Microscopes - Cloudy Nights
I have put it on my most wanted list.

Cheers.

T.
 
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