Summer Tanager / Hepatic Tanager - Costa Rica (1 Viewer)

[petit-robert]

Hello,

The first photo was taken at the Arenal observatory lodge and the second at Sarapiqui in Costa Rica in January 2022. Are they both Summer tanagers? On my old guide book there is also the Hepatic tanager but I believe that it is not present in this country.
Can you confirm ?


Thanks in advance,
Robert

 

[Muppit17]

Firstly Hepatic Tanager does occur in CR, I saw them around Arenal in Mar 2015 when I was there.

IMO the first photo is Hepatic, and the second is Summer.

 

[nartreb]

Not easy. Hepatic is a bit "dusty" looking compared to vivid red of Summer. Hepatic also has darker lores. Both traits variable (northern population of hepatic is easier to ID) and subject to photo conditions. Second photo here has to be Summer: very vivid red. I'm unsure about the first photo.

 

[petit-robert]

I use the Oiseaux.net site where I post my photos available for the determinations. This site uses as a reference:

IOC World Bird List – Version 12.1

And if we take this site as a reference here is what is written about the Hepatic Tanager

Cardinals, grosbeaks and “tanager” allies – IOC World Bird List


32472 Red Tanager Piranga flava (Vieillot, 1822) SA - s Guyana through e Brazil to Argentina
32473 P. f. flava (Vieillot, 1822) - se Bolivia to Uruguay and c Argentina
32474 P. f. macconnelli Chubb, C, 1921 - s Guyana, s Suriname and n Brazil
32475 P. f. saira (Spix, 1825) - e, s Brazil
32476 P. f. rosacea Todd, 1922 - e Bolivia

 

[petit-robert]

oh sorry, thank you very much

 

[Martin Bell]

If I remember correctly IOC have split Hepatic Tanager with those in Costa Rica now called Northern Hepatic Tanager, Piranga hepatica.

 

[THE_FERN]

Firstly Hepatic Tanager does occur in CR, I saw them around Arenal in Mar 2015 when I was there.

IMO the first photo is Hepatic, and the second is Summer.

Agree with this. AFAIK, bill colour is a key character—grey in hepatic, flesh/horn in summer. Also, hepatic w prominent tooth on bill [as here]. Colour is as others have described—hepatic "duskier", but this colour difference can be difficult to judge.

 

[petit-robert]

To conclude : the first is Hepatic and the second summer ?

I had photographed this other tanager in Tarcolès, the last. Is he also summer ?

Thanks a lot

 

[nartreb]

Oh, this is easier now that I have the photos on a bigger, more color-accurate screen. Hepatic for #1 (color is duller, lores are dark, and yes, the bill is greyer with a slightly more prominent "side tooth" - the bill is also a tiny bit heavier, protruding above the feathers at the base). Summer for #2 and #3.

Edit: I had a passing thought that Scarlet might be possible for #3, but we can see enough of the right wing (below the vine) to rule that out.

 

[petit-robert]

Great thank-you very much

 

[nartreb]

yapadkwa

 

[Tired]

The Hepatic Tanager there reminds me of a corvid slightly, with the bill shape. I'm glad someone else could clearly articulate how to tell them apart, because I can tell it's different from the Summer Tanager, but I might have a hard time parsing out exactly what's different. Nice photo.

 

[Andy Adcock]

No books here in Cyprus but doesn't Hepatic have an obviously 'toothed bill' just like the first pic but not the second?

 

[THE_FERN]

No books here in Cyprus but doesn't Hepatic have an obviously 'toothed bill' just like the first pic but not the second?

See my earlier comments

 

[raoul84]

Tooth-billed Tanager (P.lutea) from my perspective (first pic)

 

[petit-robert]

Wow I'm lost

 

[nartreb]

Wow I'm lost

The IOC splits Hepatic Tanager into three separate species. The local one in Costa Rica is Tooth-billed. The AOS considers them merely subspecies. Most North American sources follow the AOS.

 

[petit-robert]

So to conclude with my three photos,

we'll take the scientific names in Latin, it's easier.

1st: Piranga lutea

2 and 3: Piranga rubra

It's OK ?

Anyway, a big thank you to all of you.

 

[KC Foggin]

They sure are beautiful birds!

 

[nartreb]

The scientific names also change when new species are recognized, or for technical reasons.

There are rules: if two authors name the same species different things, then the older name usually wins. But for a name to be valid it has to come with a description, follow certain naming conventions, etc. Sometimes scientists disagree about which name is valid. In 1931 the AOU changed Piranga hepatica to Piranga flava, but some authorities (HBW for example) still use the name Piranga hepatica today.

Your first bird can be called Piranga flava (subspecies lutea), Piranga hepatica (subspecies lutea), or Piranga lutea, depending whose list of names you choose to follow.