The Fujinon FMTR-SX 10x50 is the Big Aperture Habicht you have been dreaming about! (4 Viewers)

[Conndomat]

Statistically striking are also your many disparaging posts about the Nikon Monarch HG 8x42 regarding high CA and edge blur (again without numbers, e.g. % of field of view radius) - in contrast to the number of reports of other members.

But I'm glad that I'm the only one who noticed the edge blurring and visible CA on the 8x42 MHG.

Review / Test Hawke Frontier APO 10x42 vs Nikon Monarch HG 8x42 - Binoculars - Cloudy Nights

Review / Test Hawke Frontier APO 10x42 vs Nikon Monarch HG 8x42 - posted in Binoculars: Hello friends, I introduce a new binocular, comparatively I use my existing one. I can only use my existing, well known Nikon Monarch HG 8x42. At places where apples and oranges appear, I point this out...

www.cloudynights.com

"The Nikon MHG clearly shows wider violet edges than the Hawke APO.
Advantages of the Hawke Frontier APO 10x42 over Nikon Monarch HG 8x42

• clearly and significantly less lateral CA
• slightly better edge sharpness of the Hawke APO 10x42 (90%) compared to Nikon MHG 8x42 (80%)

CS and best regards. Jessie.


Binoculars with 80% edge definition are not flat field glasses for me, an SLC can do that even without this advertising promise.
I have also classified the edge sharpness on the MHG 8x42 at 80% at best.

Andreas

 

[Jessie-66]

In my tests there are very concrete references (concrete, direct comparison of 2 named binoculars with different magnification, of course subjective because without measurement technology). I read many old posts of you without numbers, with "too much CA, too high edge blur, no flat field" without considering that only a moderate correction of the field curvature has advantages. Keyword: poster effect. Many people like Zeiss Conquests, Meopta Meopros and Swaro SLCs. Now you have individual appreciated numbers written.

Overall, my comment on your frequent posts without numbers about Nikon MHG 8x42 was just an imho sensible side note looking for reasons for your other judgments. My main criticism are your nonsensical statements about measurements vs individual "eye measurements" and error consideration of measurement results. So you completely distract from the self-provoked and self-inflicted topic by exclusively and incoherently addressing 1 marginal remark. Very sad and so we get nowhere.

Binoculars with 80% edge definition are not flat field glasses for me, an SLC can do that even without this advertising promise.

Again, are you just asserting or do you know the optical calculus of eyepieces, which most likely correct field curvature only moderately? Nikon writes "field flattener" on the MHGs. With your claim Nikon is lying. Post the documents your assertion and accusation is based! And now please don't start with Steiner's "Auto Focus". An implied technical consequence of low magnifications (large DOF) is far from a lie.

Can you at least name a generally accepted definition or standardized minimum requirements for "flat field"? DIN, ISO ... ?
What is right for you, what you constantly post publicly, does not necessarily apply to others and to manufacturers of binoculars.

I had to learn very quickly in this international forum to express myself less generally. Jessie

 

[henry link]

I'll suggest once again that the Allbinos article "How Do We Test Binoculars?" be read before accepting or quoting any of their results. Here is how they measure the objective lenses.

"REAL FRONT LENS DIAMETER (8 points) - That’s the another test of manufacturers truthfulness. Several tester measured personally lens diameter by slide calliper. We averaged the results achieving precision on 0.05 mm level. Front lenses could gain 4 points per each."

There are several ways to measure a binocular's clear aperture, but measuring the front element's diameter from the front is not one of them.

The August 2010 review of the Fujinon 10x50 appears to use Allbinos old method of "measuring" light transmission. Read the description of that method in the article to see how accurate you think it was.

 

[kestrel1]

I think there are valid reason why the Fuji FMT is frequently discussed in astro community, and not frequently on birdforum. I assume this not going to change. Some years ago I was thinking about FMT or its low cost clones , but skipped the idea, as my experience from Docter Nobilem was, that despite being good glass for twilight and night sky, the enjoyment factor for birding was not that great. Allbinos score and ranking are very good advisories if you take it only as advisories, not as dogma. Even if ranking will be super 100% precise with no time variation, it is quite sterile. What is not sterile, is how each binocular fit to field application, eye socket, hands, how good is focus wheel and how you feel them after usage in field. This creates the enjoyment factor which is for me main reason why I look through glass.

 

[[email protected]]

'The Fujinon FMTR-SX 10x50 is the Big Aperture Habicht you have been dreaming about!'

nope, but I would like to try these:

https://www.apm-telescopes.de/en/binoculars/binoculars-90mm-aperture/apm-ms-11-x-70-magnesium-ed-apo-binocular-nitrogen-fill.html

AFOV 52.8 degrees. Eeegh. Kind of narrow even for astro binos.

 

[[email protected]]

I've been using the fujinons for more than a decade as my main astronomical instrument. Ergonomically they are excellent, in comparison with the 10x50 swaro els I found the heavy barrels of the fujinons more pleasurable to hold and they produce a better stabilized hand held image. Sweeping the night sky with these bright, wide field light buckets induces a sort of non yearning tranquility that I use as a foil against the great shit show known as 2020.

A heavier glass like the Fujinons are more stable to hold. The Fujinons are well-balanced and are not bad at all hand held especially from a lawn chair. I actually think the AFOV is greater than the 10x50 Swaro EL because the Fujinon AFOV is wider than the specs say they are.

 

[[email protected]]

Which has zero relevance for day observation!
With the same quality and transmission values, 10x30 binoculars are just as bright during the day as 10x50 binoculars, Roger Vine explicitly points this out in every review!
Incidentally, this also applies to the comparison between the Zeiss FL 10x56 and the Fujinon 10x50; the somewhat larger lens opening of the Zeiss has no effect on the brightness here either.


Andreas

I am referring to low light observations and astro use where light transmission and aperture are very important. A bigger aperture will go deeper into the night sky revealing higher magnitude or fainter stars. Many amateur astronomers say the Fujinon FMTR-SX 10x50 will reveal a .5 magnitude fainter star than other 10x50 binoculars because of its oversize objective lens. That is one reason why the Fujinon is a better astro glass than the EL.

"The Fujinon has no aperture reduction. The field of view is a dramatic 6.7°, wider than any other 10x50 here, and in fact, wider than advertised."

 

[Conndomat]

Hello Dennis,

I'm actually tired of this nonsense, read Henry's contribution, who is certainly much more competent than me when it comes to binoculars!

Andreas

 

[[email protected]]

Hello Dennis,

I'm actually tired of this nonsense, read Henry's contribution, who is certainly much more competent than me when it comes to binoculars!

Andreas

Andreas. I appreciate your posts! They are very informative. They really make me think and because of your posts this thread has been very interesting. Keep them coming. Henry has his area of expertise, but you also have yours. You are correct on a lot of facts. Thanks, for the excellent posts!

 

[CharleyBird]

"I compared the Fujinon FMTR-SX 10x50, Habicht 10x40 GA and my Swarovski NL 8x42 yesterday side by side and if I had to sell one it would be the NL."

If you sold the NL 8x42 today what would you replace it with?
If you sold them all today, what would you repace them with?

 

[[email protected]]

If you sold the NL 8x42 today what would you replace it with?
If you sold them all today, what would you repace them with?

I think the NL is the best wide angle roof prism you can buy right now, so I don't think I will replace it yet. It does have some annoying glare at the bottom of the FOV as others have reported which really shouldn't be there on a $3K binocular. When I compare the NL to my porros I really have been noticing how flat the image is compared to the porros though and it doesn't pan as naturally as the porros. The porros really have the 3D image which I like because it is more "real". What I noticed today was the Fujinon FMTR-SX 10x50 is actually better than the Habicht 10x40 GA partly because of the bigger 50 mm aperture but partly due to the fact that the objectives are farther apart on the Fujinon so in effect you get more stereoscopic image than you do with the Habicht. Even though it has IF focus the big Fujinon really gives you one heck of a view and there is no messing around with eye cups because they are set or focusing either because it stays the same unless you try and look at something really close. I like the Fujinon so much I ordered the Fujinon FMT-SX 7x50 to try. The FMT-SX 7x50 doesn't have the rubber coating or tethered objective covers, but it is less expensive and really nobody has the FMTR-SX 7x50 in stock, so it might be discontinued. If you notice the Fujinon FMT-SX 7x50 is the number one ranked 7x50 on Allbinos and the Fujinon FMTR-SX 10x50 is the number two ranked 10x50 right below the Nikon 10x50 WX and above the Swarovski EL 10x50 and there is a reason for it. The Fujinons have big huge prisms and super light transmission, and they really give you a good view even though they are heavy and big! It is just a different view than a flat field roof prism. They are not really a birding binocular that you would hike with, but they are a lot of fun to use for astronomy, boating and some types of birding and wildlife observing from a static position. If I sold the NL I would probably replace it with another porro to tell you the truth. I really wish somebody would make some truly high end alpha porros. The Fujinon and the Habicht are about as good as you get in a porro. The Fujinon due to its bigger aperture and more widely spaced objectives is a little better than the Habicht but the Habicht is a more practical birding binocular due to its smaller size.

 

[CharleyBird]

Denco, in your ever broadening quest, maybe you need a SARD MK43 & 44 , together with a set of Nikon SE.

And I'm now reminded of a thread on the darker side ... may just go find it for you...
here you go
posts 17-37, a bit of a masterclass, and delightful to read again

Absolute Best of the Best in Binoculars - Binoculars - Cloudy Nights

Page 1 of 6 - Absolute Best of the Best in Binoculars - posted in Binoculars: While the Zeiss binoculars with the phase correction coatings are stunning in terms of transparency/brightness/contrast, they just dont seem to be as well-corrected across the FOV or as sharp in the center as other...

www.cloudynights.com

Well as the day brightens here I'm off to walk the dog and see a few ducks with my less than perfect UV+12x50
'Horses for courses'

 

[Conndomat]

Andreas. I appreciate your posts! They are very informative. They really make me think and because of your posts this thread has been very interesting. Keep them coming. Henry has his area of expertise, but you also have yours. You are correct on a lot of facts. Thanks, for the excellent posts!

Hello Dennis,

I am not interested in talking badly about the Fujinon 10x50, I like to use it myself, we only come to slightly different assessments as to whether it is "better" or "worse" than the Swarovski EL 10x50, that's okay too!
I think the Fujinon is so popular in the astro scene because many amateur astronomers are not prepared to spend too much money on hand-held binoculars, they prefer to use them for large binoculars.
From a purely practical point of view, this makes sense, if you are exclusively a sky observer you don't need binoculars that are 2-3 times as expensive, which at best IMHO are a little better!
I am happy if you are very satisfied with the Fujinon, it is still a great pair of binoculars.

means,
Andreas

 

[[email protected]]

Hello Dennis,

I am not interested in talking badly about the Fujinon 10x50, I like to use it myself, we only come to slightly different assessments as to whether it is "better" or "worse" than the Swarovski EL 10x50, that's okay too!
I think the Fujinon is so popular in the astro scene because many amateur astronomers are not prepared to spend too much money on hand-held binoculars, they prefer to use them for large binoculars.
From a purely practical point of view, this makes sense, if you are exclusively a sky observer you don't need binoculars that are 2-3 times as expensive, which at best IMHO are a little better!
I am happy if you are very satisfied with the Fujinon, it is still a great pair of binoculars.

means,
Andreas

I agree. I am just becoming addicted to the stereoscopic view of the porro prism, less glare and the ability to pan without a lot of aberrations or RB. The Fujinons have an exceptional view even for terrestrial use and lately I just prefer it over the EL 10x50 and even my NL 8x42. It is just personal preference. I ordered the Fujinon FMT-SX 7x50 to try. It is rated again number one in the 7x50 group by Allbinos. I see why these big porros with their huge prisms are rated highly. They just work good with their simple optical system and without all the complexity of a roof prism. I will let you know what I think of it.

Binoculars rankings - 7x50 - AllBinos.com

The best binocular tests on the net. The comprehensive database of binoculars with their parameters and users opinions. Interesting articles and comparisons.

www.allbinos.com

 

[[email protected]]

Denco, in your ever broadening quest, maybe you need a SARD MK43 & 44 , together with a set of Nikon SE.

And I'm now reminded of a thread on the darker side ... may just go find it for you...
here you go
posts 17-37, a bit of a masterclass, and delightful to read again

Absolute Best of the Best in Binoculars - Binoculars - Cloudy Nights

Page 1 of 6 - Absolute Best of the Best in Binoculars - posted in Binoculars: While the Zeiss binoculars with the phase correction coatings are stunning in terms of transparency/brightness/contrast, they just dont seem to be as well-corrected across the FOV or as sharp in the center as other...

www.cloudynights.com

Well as the day brightens here I'm off to walk the dog and see a few ducks with my less than perfect UV+12x50
'Horses for courses'

Those big 50 mm roofs or porros are hard to beat regardless of the weight. That big UV+12x50 is a nice binocular. If I see a Sard MK43 or 44 I will try one. I have had all the Nikon SE models except for 12x50 SE and the E2. They never quite WOWED me like the Fujinon does. I would like to try the Nikon 12x50 SE if I could find one. The Habicht is not quite as good either. I think some Habichts have undersize prisms like the Habicht 7x42 to save weight hence the narrow FOV. The Fujinon just has that bigger aperture and those huge prisms that knock your socks off with the view!

 

[Conndomat]

I ordered the Fujinon FMT-SX 7x50 to try.

Hello Dennis,

I also had the 7x50, also a nice glass!

Due to the low magnification, it naturally has a good depth of field, which makes it easier to use the glass during the day.
The 3D perception is even better than in the 10x50, the color coordination is like the 10x50.
From memory it wasn't quite as edgesharp as the 10 and the AFOV is a bit tight for some people, but significantly better than the Habicht 7x42.
For Astro you of course need an extremely dark sky with the glass, hardly available here in Germany, maybe there are still a few dark places in Colorado?
Yes, write something when you received the glass and tested it a bit.

Andreas

 

[[email protected]]

Hello Dennis,

I also had the 7x50, also a nice glass!

Due to the low magnification, it naturally has a good depth of field, which makes it easier to use the glass during the day.
The 3D perception is even better than in the 10x50, the color coordination is like the 10x50.
From memory it wasn't quite as edgesharp as the 10 and the AFOV is a bit tight for some people, but significantly better than the Habicht 7x42.
For Astro you of course need an extremely dark sky with the glass, hardly available here in Germany, maybe there are still a few dark places in Colorado?
Yes, write something when you received the glass and tested it a bit.

Andreas

I will! Thanks, for the feedback on it. If I go up in the mountains the skies are pretty dark.

 

[dries1]

If you go up in the mountains at night Dennis.........look out for those goats........... and the predator's that feed on them.

Andy W.

 

[John A Roberts]

A possible alternative to the Fujinon x50's are the somewhat rare, and now discontinued, Pentax PIF's
They were also available in 10x50 and 7x50 and were significantly larger and heavier than the Fuji's!
However, they had the advantage of smaller diameter eyepieces, and so may be more adaptable to those with wider noses

See the images from a review by [email protected] at: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/367903-first-impressions-of-pentax-pif-10x50/
The images compare: the Pentax PIF 10x50, the Fujinon FMTR-SX 10x50, and; the Nikon SE 10x42


John

 

[[email protected]]

If you go up in the mountains at night Dennis.........look out for those goats........... and the predator's that feed on them.

Andy W.

That is why I bought that big Fujinon. I will just bash them in the head with it.