What did I miss? Terra ED??? (2 Viewers)

[jan van daalen]

She mentioned something about the 80's and a pub in Amsterdam called "Folks Fair Pot", but that doesn't sound familiar to you, does it.......
And after all, it's better than a boy called Sue.
Jan

 

[brocknroller]

I'm with Leif, does it matter? As long as it is made to Zeiss standards and they have control of QC isn't it better for us as consumers? I'm not so much concerned with where it's made ashow it's made! Quality for less money is a good thing! Bryce...

Bryce,

Now don't start cornfusing things by trying to be sensible.

As I mentioned earlier, the perception that a product labeled Made in Germany has better quality than those made elsewhere is one that is not easily overcome, particularly among elitists who buy German products specifically for their world-renown prestige. Japan may not have invented QCM, I'm not even sure if w. edwards deming did but he is credited for exporting the idea to Japan, and Japan moved from making low quality trinkets to high quality cars and electronics. As someone implied - it was good fit their culture of precision and work ethic.

Germans also have a reputation for preciseness and running a tight ship. Even though there might be some level of control lost by outsourcing, I believe that Zeiss would stay on top of QC in whatever country they are manufacturing in to maintain the brand and ensure good sales.

I have confidence that the Terra ED will be, as Zeiss states, made to Zeiss quality standards. The glass and materials might not be as costly as those used in the Conquest HD and Victory HT, but at its price point, the bin will probably compete well against others in the same segment. If it doesn't or if QC is shoddy, hell fire will rain down, we already know that from reading some posts on this thread!

What Max Headroom re-re-re-repeated is another matter re: truth in advertising. I agree with him. Even if a product is outsourced, and QC is maintained, consumers should get the straight skinny on that product's origins, because I suspect from the reaction of the German Chamber of Business & Industry to increasing labeling standards that there's been price gouging going on for products labeled Made in Germany, but that were actually made up to 90% elsewhere, and if the truth comes out and that false label is tarnished, those companies who have had a slight of hand might not be able to sell their products at the same profit margins any longer.

Since profits are tied to wages, that could hurt the German workforce, so their concern is not without merit, but I suspect their real concern is with the business owners they represent rather than the German workers. OTOH, Germany seems more tolerant of unions than the US where some states are waging a war against organized labor with the "Employee Free Choice Act" in an attempt to make American wages more competitive with China (yeah, that sounds really "free" doesn't it?).

Even though globalization pretty much assures that most products will contain parts from more than one country, I don't like the fast and loose German labeling laws, and I'm with those who support making them more strict even if that's only 45% Made in Germany.

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[St. Elmo]

Problems down the road??
I may be paranoid, but I think that when outsourcing takes place, an owner in need of repair is more likely to hear "We no longer support that product" than when the product is actually made in the stated country of origin. You see, I've been harmed by that situation on more than one occasion.

 

[John Cantelo]

I know speculation is fun and all that, but with closing on 150 posts about a binocular that nobody has seen 'in the flesh' ..... come on people! Let's just be patient and wait until it can be put up against the opposition and judged for what it is, not what we think it might, or should, be.

 

[jan van daalen]

You have absolutely a point here, but dealing with alpha's means they do sorten out their own mess.
Leica has problems with the parts of their old scopes, because they outsourced them, in the past, to Meopta (like Zeiss did/does) and cancelled the coöperation. I often experience a very nice coulance deal form Leica to customers with an broken/unrepairable Leica scope.
I am convinced that Zeiss will do the same if a similar situation would accur.
They should have only playd the game straight from the start, but that is clear enough.

Jan

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[brocknroller]

I know speculation is fun and all that, but with closing on 150 posts about a binocular that nobody has seen 'in the flesh' ..... come on people! Let's just be patient and wait until it can be put up against the opposition and judged for what it is, not what we think it might, or should, be.

John,

The fact that you made 4,015 posts on BF without ever once speculating about anything deserves a medal. Even Henry doesn't have such a perfect record and has on rare occasions been known to speculate about optics (based on compelling evidence, mind you -- not like my wild speculation about one of the oldest existing optics manufacturers in the world, and probably the most respected, producing another quality product).

Just because Zeiss has been making quality optics since 1846, how can we trust that they would not change their stripes in this day and age of corporate corruption and greed? You are so right!

I mean, could you imagine if the world's stock markets were based on commodities speculation instead of current knowledge? It would be chaos!

I hereby award you this image of the "Queen Victoria - Una & the Lion" medallion, which represents innocence, honour, chastity and truth. Print it out and wear it so people know you are not a speculator!

http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/images/queenvictoriaunaandthelionlarge9ctgoldmedallionrev400.jpg

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[motts]

It doesn't matter to me where they are made...as long as they're not telling me they're made somewhere, when in fact they are not. If it says made in China and it looks good, I'll by it. If it says Made in Japan and looks good, I'll buy it. If it says Made in Germany, but it's really made in China or Japan, I'll be pissed. Why? I don't like being deceived or lied to. And people are generally willing to pay more for the Made in Germany label, either because of bragging rights, superior quality, and to avoid the lesser quality control that is usually associated with China. Companies know this and mark their product Made in Germany when they are in fact not...to take advantage of us consumers and charge more money because they know people are willing to pay more for made in Germany (myself included).

 

[Troubador]

She mentioned something about the 80's and a pub in Amsterdam called "Folks Fair Pot", but that doesn't sound familiar to you, does it.......
And after all, it's better than a boy called Sue.
Jan

Don't recall Folks Fair Pot but I do remember the £1,000 bar bill at the Tivoli Bar in Amsterdam.....

Fortunately I wasn't the person paying


Lee

 

[Leif]

Don't recall Folks Fair Pot but I do remember the £1,000 bar bill at the Tivoli Bar in Amsterdam.....

Fortunately I wasn't the person paying


Lee

Maybe the other Lee's name is short for Holy Moses, that being the exclamation on seeing the bar bill. Just a suggestion.

 

[John Cantelo]

John,

The fact that you made 4,015 posts on BF without ever once speculating about anything deserves a medal. Even Henry doesn't have such a perfect record and has on rare occasions been known to speculate about optics (based on compelling evidence, mind you -- not like my wild speculation about one of the oldest existing optics manufacturers in the world, and probably the most respected, producing another quality product).

Just because Zeiss has been making quality optics since 1846, how can we trust that they would not change their stripes in this day and age of corporate corruption and greed? You are so right!

I mean, could you imagine if the world's stock markets were based on commodities speculation instead of current knowledge? It would be chaos!

I hereby award you this image of the "Queen Victoria - Una & the Lion" medallion, which represents innocence, honour, chastity and truth. Print it out and wear it so people know you are not a speculator!

http://www.taxfreegold.co.uk/images/queenvictoriaunaandthelionlarge9ctgoldmedallionrev400.jpg

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I will wear the medal with pride and if you've actually read through all 4,000+ of mine to check your hypothesis then you also deserve a medal too although some might question your sanity. However, a thread consisting almost entirely of speculation is unusual. Whilst people may do whatsoever they wish with their time I do think there comes a point where speculation becomes OTT and you just need the patience to wait and see the actual objects of curiosity.

 

[Troubador]

Maybe the other Lee's name is short for Holy Moses, that being the exclamation on seeing the bar bill. Just a suggestion.

Hi Leif

I should explain that in the bar we were met by several charming ladies who sat with us at the bar. I gent, 1 lady, 1 gent, 1 lady etc. We were drinking champagne and the ladies each had a glass as well as the gents. The bottle would be opened then each glass was filled in turn. One bottle didn't fill all of the glasses in the line, so another bottle had to be opened before everyone (including the ladies) had a full glass. 10 -15 minutes later the glasses were empty so another 2 bottles were opened.

This went on for several hours and it turned out the champagne was £70 per bottle.......... LOL

Moses would have been as surprised as I was.

Lee

 

[jan van daalen]

Lee,

Tivoli's hospitality on Thorbeckeplein is well known as Dutch treat.
Those were the days.....
Jan

 

[Troubador]

I will wear the medal with pride and if you've actually read through all 4,000+ of mine to check your hypothesis then you also deserve a medal too although some might question your sanity. However, a thread consisting almost entirely of speculation is unusual. Whilst people may do whatsoever they wish with their time I do think there comes a point where speculation becomes OTT and you just need the patience to wait and see the actual objects of curiosity.

Hi John

While there is no doubt a surplus of speculation on BF you need to bear in mind that we are talking about Zeiss here: Carl Zeiss does not bring out a new model every day of the week and it has never entered the market at anything like this price point.

Lee

 

[Steve C]

It actually seems the thread is more about Zeiss and where they make the Conquest HD than it is about the Terra ED. Threads often seem to switch directions around here.

 

[brocknroller]

I will wear the medal with pride and if you've actually read through all 4,000+ of mine to check your hypothesis then you also deserve a medal too although some might question your sanity. However, a thread consisting almost entirely of speculation is unusual. Whilst people may do whatsoever they wish with their time I do think there comes a point where speculation becomes OTT and you just need the patience to wait and see the actual objects of curiosity.

John,

I'm glad you took my post in good humor, as it was intended.

If you go back and check the original Zeiss HT thread, it was pretty much the same, no, actually it was a lot longer, because there were delays with the launch, and the conversation moved from speculating about the bin to speculating about the reason for the delays!

It had 854 posts and speculation right up to the very last post today:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=223810&page=35

Finally, someone with your own distaste for speculation started a new thread, asking for comments only from members who had tried the HTs. Well, since only two or three members had at that point, and those comments were somewhat contradictory of each other, the speculation became even more intense.

As my Uncle Albert once said:

“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”

I realize that I'm not going to find out more about the Terra ED or its origins from speculation, unless Gary chimes in to straighten out misconceptions and prime the pump like he did with the Conquest HD.

However, from a marketing perspective, what I find interesting is what people's attitudes are toward where something is made, how they feel about "truth in labeling," and the reasons they give for these opinions can be more interesting than discussing the bins themselves.

As soon as Henry gets a Terra ED in his hand and dissects it, analyzes it, and interprets the test results -- that will be the final word. End of discussion.

But watching non-technical people do what they do best - being human - is like watching bird do what they do best - being birds. Yes, birds are pretty and cool to watch for their aesthetics, but watching them interact is far more interesting to me.

Brock

 

[cycleguy]

Local outdoorsmen retail around these parts, IF they carry Zeiss it is the Conquest in both riflescopes and binoculars. Rarely, if ever, do I see a Victory anything. So reality for local retail around here is Zeiss is a single tier of product.

I'd likely look first at a $350 binocular w/ the Zeiss logo on it vs. an off name $350 binocular; but Nikon, Leupold, Vortex, Alpen, house brands and others are already everywhere at this price point.

CG

 

[james holdsworth]

Press release indicates ED glass, Someone further back suggested that the usage of the term ''ED'' might be just marketing speak.

http://www.ammoland.com/2013/01/carl-zeiss-sports-optics-terra-ed-binoculars/#axzz2HysSwNrb

 

[Leif]

Press release indicates ED glass, Someone further back suggested that the usage of the term ''ED'' might be just marketing speak.

http://www.ammoland.com/2013/01/carl-zeiss-sports-optics-terra-ed-binoculars/#axzz2HysSwNrb

Interesting. It is not surprising really is it, when the Chinese brands openly advertise ED glass (or whatever they choose to call it). And ED glass is widely used in photographic optics, including so called consumer grade lenses.

I do wonder how long the big names can continue manufacturing the premium instruments in Western Europe, given that Chinese made instruments are starting to provide rather good performance for small money. That said, one has to wonder how many components in the premium binoculars from Leica, Nikon, Swarovski and Zeiss are outsourced. I wonder how long it will be before 'Chinese Brand' produces something on a par with a top grade bin? Sorry, I am wandering from the thread topic.

 

[brocknroller]

Press release indicates ED glass, Someone further back suggested that the usage of the term ''ED'' might be just marketing speak.

http://www.ammoland.com/2013/01/carl-zeiss-sports-optics-terra-ed-binoculars/#axzz2HysSwNrb

It is definitely extra-low dispersion glass from the press release, and from Zeiss' new definition of "HD," the Terra ED could also be described as "HD".

I've never seen a "con" on ED glass yet, but I have seen "HD" used as a marketing term in bins that do not have ED glass, but Zeiss defines "HD" as including ED glass. Btw, I think this changed since the last time I visited the Website, I don't think it mentioned ED glass, and I posted that somewhere.

"HD = High Definition. HD is not a type of lens. Instead it describes the result of the ED lenses: very good resolution"

http://sportsoptics.zeiss.com/hunting/en_us/binoculars/conquest/hd.html#inpagetabs-4

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[Binastro]

Many cheaper binoculars described as high definition are anything but.
My Soviet 12 x 45 soundly beats them in resolution, i.e. 12 x50 high definition porro etc.
I think some of these advertising terms are meaningless unless used by top firms, where one expects something approaching reality.