What's the best ever Leica porro? (1 Viewer)

[spitfiretriple]

I can't afford (or won't justify) the price of a modern Leica roof/uppendahl prism, even 2H. But I fancy a Leica. Well, James Bond had one so it must be good. I reckon if I go back a few years to when porros ruled the roost I might be able to get something good for not too much money.

I've done a search here and got nowhere. So, please advise me, what's a good porro Leica?

 

[John Russell]

You'll have to go back a bit!
I have a Leitz (Leica) General Catalogue from 1966 and the only bins listed are 3 Trinovids, 7x35B, 8x32 and 10x40 - all roofs.

John

 

[henry link]

Leitz Porros were discontinued in 1962. Unlike Zeiss/Oberkochen, which came out with innovative new designs after WWII, Leitz continued to make the same pre-war Porro models with just the addition of coatings. I have a 7x50, 8x30 and 6x30. The 6x30 is my personal favorite. Scroll down the page for a list of all the Leitz models here:

http://www.europa.com/~telscope/binotele.htm

 

[spitfiretriple]

Thanks John, Henry

I've followed your suggestions (and scrolled down your link Henry to the Leica spreadsheet) and researched further and it seems my idea was not a particularly good one; it seems I'm not likely to end up with a reasonable pair of binoculars for my money if I go the route I pondered. I have learned though that, if I persist with my badge vanity, Zeiss continued building excellent porros for a few decades after Leica/Leitz stopped. So perhaps I'll start reading up on Zeiss porros.

Alternatively, I could ignore my belief in the superiority of old-fashioned porros, and look instead into 2H Trinovids. NB I hadn't realised the Trinovids were Uppendahl prisms, the Ultravids moving to the more conventional Schmidt-Pechans.

Or I could even do the sensible thing, and start saving for a Nikon 8x30 EII or a 8x32SE. Not so much the saving, more the persuading myself that it's a good way to spend what money I have. The dilemma that most of us have, I daresay.

 

[Hermann]

I have learned though that, if I persist with my badge vanity, Zeiss continued building excellent porros for a few decades after Leica/Leitz stopped. So perhaps I'll start reading up on Zeiss porros. <snip>

Or I could even do the sensible thing, and start saving for a Nikon 8x30 EII or a 8x32SE. Not so much the saving, more the persuading myself that it's a good way to spend what money I have. The dilemma that most of us have, I daresay.

The old Zeiss West Porros, like the 8x30B, the 8x50B and the 10x50, are pretty old, too, and I'd consider them collector's items. Production ended in the late 1960's and, in the case of the 8x30B, in the 1970's. They're nice, especially the 8x30B, but I don't think you'll be able to find one in good condition at a reasonable price. Many of the old porros need cleaning by the way which adds to the cost.

The East German Zeiss are a different matter, they're somewhat easier to find and offer quite reasonable optical performance. I'd go for the Jenoptem 8x30 or the Jenoptem 10x50. Don't get one of the old Zeiss Jena roofs.

However, I think your second idea is probably better. Save up and get one of the Nikons. I personally prefer the Nikon 8x32 SE. Or see whether you can find a used Leica or Zeiss roof from the 1990's, for instance the Leica 8x32BA or the Zeiss 8x30BGAT*P.

Hermann

 

[garymh]

Leica did manufacture an 8x30 porro until very recently (in fact it may still be in production) for the Swiss army although it is not available via conventional dealers. It is rubber armoured with individual eye focus and a strange hinge design but it is a lovely binocular and very lightweight. They occasionally appear on ebay or for sale at specialist surplus suppliers such as Deutsche Optic who have some at the moment priced at $679.00. http://www.deutscheoptik.com/

Most of the ones for sale will have a reticule fitted but these can easily be removed by an optical repairer.

 

[spitfiretriple]

I came across these while researching. The're rather dinky. I understand they're very good if not perfect for what they're designed to be - a compact, light, rugged, effective binocular for soldiers looking at big things at least 500m or so away. But I understand that the very design features that have allowed them to be good at what they're designed for makes them less than good at the shorter, ever-changing ranges needed for nature viewing.

 

[ceasar]

Thanks John, Henry

I've followed your suggestions (and scrolled down your link Henry to the Leica spreadsheet) and researched further and it seems my idea was not a particularly good one; it seems I'm not likely to end up with a reasonable pair of binoculars for my money if I go the route I pondered. I have learned though that, if I persist with my badge vanity, Zeiss continued building excellent porros for a few decades after Leica/Leitz stopped. So perhaps I'll start reading up on Zeiss porros.

Alternatively, I could ignore my belief in the superiority of old-fashioned porros, and look instead into 2H Trinovids. NB I hadn't realised the Trinovids were Uppendahl prisms, the Ultravids moving to the more conventional Schmidt-Pechans.

Or I could even do the sensible thing, and start saving for a Nikon 8x30 EII or a 8x32SE. Not so much the saving, more the persuading myself that it's a good way to spend what money I have. The dilemma that most of us have, I daresay.

Saving for the Nikons is the best idea, I think. I have them both and they are first rate!

I also have the older Leitz (as it was known then-not Leica) 7 x 42 Trinovid BA which has Uppendahl Prisms. It was a pretty good roof prism for it's day, and still is, to my eyes anyway, a good user/collectible at the right price; but the ones I've seen advertised for sale cost too much!

I also have the recently discontinued Leica 7 x 42 BN Trinovid with the Schmidt/Pechan Prisms and I can state categorically that it is much better than the Leitz which also has a yellowish color cast. The Leica Trinovid is a lot brighter and has a much stronger (tank like!) build with better eyecups, a better diopter adjustment and more neutral color.

Bob

 

[Martin Fagg]

Leica did manufacture an 8x30 porro until very recently (in fact it may still be in production) for the Swiss army although it is not available via conventional dealers. It is rubber armoured with individual eye focus and a strange hinge design but it is a lovely binocular and very lightweight. They occasionally appear on ebay or for sale at specialist surplus suppliers such as Deutsche Optic who have some at the moment priced at $679.00. http://www.deutscheoptik.com/

Most of the ones for sale will have a reticule fitted but these can easily be removed by an optical repairer.

I wonder if the Czech ones on this site are Meoptas?

http://www.deutscheoptik.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=11&products_id=691

 

[spyglass]

The last Zeiss West 8x30B I saw on ebay got over a dozen bids and I think finally sold for around $400 (I've seen them go for just over $500), but a good, clean one is a match for any medium size glass, roof or porro, ever made. It's a very compact glass, and not fully MC, but the view is fine indeed. Even the Jena models, if you get a late one with multi-coating and rubber eyecups, are excellent, and often go for around $200-250.

Of course, the 8x32SE offers magnificent views, and to a slightly lesser degree, so does the EII (tho' there'll be some rock-throwin' dissenters who'll chime in on that assessment, but c 'est la vie). And if you can go to a little larger size, and can handle 30oz, the Swift 820 is right there with any of them. So you have some choices.....

 

[henry link]

Unfortunately none of the Zeiss West Porros were in production late enough to have any multi-coating. Some are not even "fully-coated". I have an 8x30 B from the early 60's which has no coating at all on the exterior of the eyelens while my earlier 6x30 is coated on that surface.

The 8x30 B's produced from 1968 to 1978 were given a 60 degree widefield eyepiece. Those seem to be rare and can be visually distinguished from the older 8x30 B (which is pretty common) by a longer objective tube at the front of the binocular.

The Zeiss/Jena models were quite cheap in europe in the 80's. I bought a new pair of multi-coated 8x30 Detrintems from a London dealer in the mid 80's for 50 pounds. The 8x30 Jenoptem was even cheaper, 40 pounds.

 

[Hermann]

The 8x30 B's produced from 1968 to 1978 were given a 60 degree widefield eyepiece. Those seem to be rare and can be visually distinguished from the older 8x30 B (which is pretty common) by a longer objective tube at the front of the binocular.

The 8x30B is indeed much rarer than the 8x30. It is in some ways the nicest of the old Zeiss West Porros - somewhat better coatings than the 8x30 and easier to use than, for instance, the 8x30 with it's Erfle eyepieces or indeed the Zeiss West 10x50. The contrast, while by no means up to modern standards, is nevertheless quite acceptable.

Of all the old porros it's one of the few I'd still use from time to time in the field if I had one. Alas, I never found one at a decent price. The other one is the 8x50B, a very nice pair. Mine dates back to 1960 and is in immaculate condition after I had it cleaned by Zeiss in Wetzlar. It runs circles around all the roofs of the time without phase coatings.

Hermann

 

[henry link]

Hermann,

In addition to the 8x30 there were two 8x30B's. The 8x30B made after 1968 had a 130m field. By chance there happened to be one of those late 1968-1978 versions on ebay in the UK recently. Notice the longer objective barrels and a shorter eyepiece housing compared to to the pre-1968 8x30B. I also notice that the serial# is 7 digits instead of 6.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CARL-ZEISS-WEST-GERMANY-8x30B-PORRO-BINOCULARS-NR-MINT-/300448463895

 

[Pinewood]

Hello Spitfiretriple,

I am very satisfied with the view from my coated 7x50 Marseptit, but it is not really a bird watcher's glass, unless you are looking for nocturnal birds. If it were not for the poor eye relief and fixed eye cups of my 8x30 Binuxit, it would still be a usable binocular. However, the mid priced binoculars of today, with multi-coating are probably superior. I would write that the Nikon EII, has everything you would want in a Porro: contrast, resolution, wide field, except sufficient eye relief to be friendly to some who wear specs.

The Leitz Binuxit was superior to its Zeiss competition from 1927 onwards, the year of its introduction, until 1954, the year when Zeiss Oberkochen introduced its new binocular. It also proves that the engineers of that period were well aware of the competition and their performance levels, and always eager to strive for improvements. This old Binuxit of the 1950s was beating its competitors of the 1970s (Deltrentis), 1980s (B8x30) and the currently made 8WYJ, not a bad result for such a grandpa model. Again, if equipped with a modern multi-coating, this binocular were still able to compete on todays medium range market-Holger Merlitz at:

http://www.holgermerlitz.de/seven8x30.html

If you should go the second hand route, then closely examine the older glasses for a yellow image. The Canadian balsam of the old binoculars have a tendency to turn yellow.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

 

[Swissboy]

Leica did manufacture an 8x30 porro until very recently (in fact it may still be in production) for the Swiss army .......

Never heard of these before. In my days, it was the Kern 8x30s. But of course, they had to find another manufacturer after Kern folded.

 

[ceasar]

Deutche Optik still sells these. Henry doesn't like them much as I recall. Coatings aren't up to snuff.
Bob