-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Where are made the Conquest HD (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter PHA
- Start date
Does it really matter. The conquests are, in my humble opinion, after long testing sessions the best sub £1000 binos around, and built like a tank.
They push Alphas very close. Very close indeed!!
They probably need to source out a bit to hit that price.
Epic Binos, and besides, the Japanese are top drawer for manufacturing, be that cars, cameras, lenses etc.
Don't even start me on high end Jap watches, which will easily go head to head with Swiss timepieces.
They push Alphas very close. Very close indeed!!
They probably need to source out a bit to hit that price.
Epic Binos, and besides, the Japanese are top drawer for manufacturing, be that cars, cameras, lenses etc.
Don't even start me on high end Jap watches, which will easily go head to head with Swiss timepieces.
Somebody claimed the early ones were made by Kamakura in Japan.
Not sure if they were moved elsewhere? Look where some parts for some "Swiss made" watches come from...
Looking at the final product the Conquest HD are some great binocular. I still would prefer to get more unobstructed information about where they are actually made especially if this "made in" is so much of the brand's marketing used to justify somewhat stiffer pricing.
Thinking the other way around: If they would be entirely made in Germany it would be claimed more visibly.
For comparison Apple is bypassing this with the claim "designed in" California not "made in".
Not sure if they were moved elsewhere? Look where some parts for some "Swiss made" watches come from...
Looking at the final product the Conquest HD are some great binocular. I still would prefer to get more unobstructed information about where they are actually made especially if this "made in" is so much of the brand's marketing used to justify somewhat stiffer pricing.
Thinking the other way around: If they would be entirely made in Germany it would be claimed more visibly.
For comparison Apple is bypassing this with the claim "designed in" California not "made in".
Last edited:
I bought my 8x32 Conquest HDs in (I think) 2014. On the instrument itself it states unambiguously "Made in Germany". A truly excellent binocular. You might find this useful (there's a video a short way in): Where are Zeiss binoculars made?
PS: if you haven't seen it, as far as durability is concerned this is worth watching: Zeiss Conquest HD Binocular Durability Test.
PS: if you haven't seen it, as far as durability is concerned this is worth watching: Zeiss Conquest HD Binocular Durability Test.
Last edited:
That durability test is off the scale...... awesome !!
jan van daalen
Well-known member
I don't know where these experts have their "knowledge" from, but it is no secret anymore that the Conquest line is made in Japan nor is it denied anymore by Zeiss.
Jan
Fair enough Jan, I'm certainly not going to argue! Japan it is.
_Prism_
Well-known member
Jan are you able to either provide or direct us toward verifiable information regarding precisely what parts / how much of these binoculars are made in Japan? I have come across people mentioning this on BF a few times without providing any evidence to back up the claim. Not denying something is not the same as acknowledging it is true.
I ask as I am familiar with companies exploiting loopholes in origin laws to prop up products with the prestige of a "Made in Germany" label, and I am curious as to precisely what extent that applies here - i.e. if the raw materials (such as the glass), as well as the frame, rubber armour, and the accessories are manufactured in Japan but if the initial R&D and then the final assembly, testing, quality control, finishing and packaging takes place in Germany, then to me this would very much qualify as a German product. On the other hand, if the components are fully manufactured, assembled, and QC'd in Japan and then merely packaged in Germany, then this would clearly not truly be a German product as is claimed on the label.
With modern supply chains the way they are, I would be very surprised if all the parts of any binocular are actually produced in Germany. Quite frankly, I don't really care if a few of the parts and accessories are made in other countries. Zeiss clearly doesn't have a problem stating the origin on some of their other premium products - my Victory Pocket is clearly labelled "Japan" - so I'm curious as to why this wouldn't be the case for the Conquests?
james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
I’d like to know that too as it is implied that the origin label is dishonest and unethical, possibly fraudulent.
If the Conquests really are made in Japan then Zeiss is fraudulently using the “made in Germany” label to sell product upmarket.
If the Conquests really are made in Japan then Zeiss is fraudulently using the “made in Germany” label to sell product upmarket.
jan van daalen
Well-known member
I think you must see it in the light of history.
The original Conquest was made in the Hungarian plant of Zeiss. Discussing economics Zeiss decided to outsource the production of the Conquest to a OEM in Japan and later on the Terra to a OEM in China. When the Conquest HD was launched the text of the brochure put Made in Germany as "Made in Germany", which caused a lot of discussions on the IWA (the event where the Conquest was launched) between Zeiss dealers and Zeiss staff.
The staff, surprised by all this, reacted that the Conquest was Made in Germany and refused flat out further discussions .
In those days the distribution of Zeiss in The Netherlands was done by a third party and they, not knowing the Zeiss position, told me that the Conquest was made in Japan.
Confronting the Head of Zeiss optics with this fact (and told him not to f...k with me as that would have consequences), he told me that the Conquest was indeed Made in Japan but with exclusive Zeiss manufacturing equipment like the high vacuum coating device and the Conquest was shipped to Germany in five pieces. In Wetzlar it got put together under Zeiss QC.
On that same Fair I spoke with the owner of a Belgium based optics brand who told me that his top optics from Japan currently were coated with the new Zeiss coatings. There goes exclusive.......
Later in time, Zeiss took the distribution of their optics in The Netherlands in their own hands. The former distributor was not amused and told me that the only thing that was done to the Conquest in Germany was mounting the eyecups on the Conquest to make the device in a working state so, by European Law, it was Made in Germany.
Who to believe.
Fact is that nowadays it is "accepted" that a A-brand outsources it's production to third parties as long as the quality is in order. When Zeiss outsourced the production of the Conquest, I was confused. What to tell the customer. They were under the impression they bought a Zeiss product and not a Japanese product labelled "Made in Germany". It took some time and heated discussions but these days it is not such a problem as long as it is explained to the customer.
Currently there is no production in Wetzlar. It all went to Oberkochen. Maybe it would be a idea when Zeiss would make a promotion movie how they make/assemble the Conquest so for once and for all these kind of discussions come to an end.
Jan
The original Conquest was made in the Hungarian plant of Zeiss. Discussing economics Zeiss decided to outsource the production of the Conquest to a OEM in Japan and later on the Terra to a OEM in China. When the Conquest HD was launched the text of the brochure put Made in Germany as "Made in Germany", which caused a lot of discussions on the IWA (the event where the Conquest was launched) between Zeiss dealers and Zeiss staff.
The staff, surprised by all this, reacted that the Conquest was Made in Germany and refused flat out further discussions .
In those days the distribution of Zeiss in The Netherlands was done by a third party and they, not knowing the Zeiss position, told me that the Conquest was made in Japan.
Confronting the Head of Zeiss optics with this fact (and told him not to f...k with me as that would have consequences), he told me that the Conquest was indeed Made in Japan but with exclusive Zeiss manufacturing equipment like the high vacuum coating device and the Conquest was shipped to Germany in five pieces. In Wetzlar it got put together under Zeiss QC.
On that same Fair I spoke with the owner of a Belgium based optics brand who told me that his top optics from Japan currently were coated with the new Zeiss coatings. There goes exclusive.......
Later in time, Zeiss took the distribution of their optics in The Netherlands in their own hands. The former distributor was not amused and told me that the only thing that was done to the Conquest in Germany was mounting the eyecups on the Conquest to make the device in a working state so, by European Law, it was Made in Germany.
Who to believe.
Fact is that nowadays it is "accepted" that a A-brand outsources it's production to third parties as long as the quality is in order. When Zeiss outsourced the production of the Conquest, I was confused. What to tell the customer. They were under the impression they bought a Zeiss product and not a Japanese product labelled "Made in Germany". It took some time and heated discussions but these days it is not such a problem as long as it is explained to the customer.
Currently there is no production in Wetzlar. It all went to Oberkochen. Maybe it would be a idea when Zeiss would make a promotion movie how they make/assemble the Conquest so for once and for all these kind of discussions come to an end.
Jan
Last edited:
jan van daalen
Well-known member
The same counts for China as long as the sample variation is in line and that is a matter of QC and that is a matter of investments which makes the bin less profitable, while the first reason to outsource is more profit.
It's all about profit and margins.
China makes the same quality as every other country.......... when paid for.
Jan
Last edited:
It is common that when one company issues a licence for another company to be able to copy one of its products, that the version of the product that the licence covers is several years old. In other words licencing usually only allows an old version of the product to be copied leaving the original company able to sell the latest and best version. I have certainly worked with companies who were licenced in this way.
It would not be at all surprising then if Zeiss has licensed an older version of T* to be used on Conquest HD and not the same as used on SFs or HTs, and this would sit comfortably with the idea that Conquest is a second tier line and not the top of the line flagship, which is the Victory line.
Lee
jan van daalen
Well-known member
Hi Lee,
I am certain of that, but let's agree on one thing:
The discussion of the quality issue and the discussion of so called Made in Germany issue are two separate issues. Right?
Jan
Absolutely. My Conquest HD 8x32 is one of my all-time bino favourites. It has had some hard use in all weathers and never let me down.
Lee
Well said Lee, I think Jan and yourself have summed up the situation, and I'll unwatch this now!
james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
So it seems the made in Germany label is useless and completely duplicitous.
