Which Egret? (2 Viewers)

[socksitis]

Yesterday in South Devon, with cattle mooching in the mud, not particularly graceful - more rumped up, no 'Marigold gloves' on his feet, is this just a little egret?

 

[Andy Adcock]

Cattle Egret


A

 

[socksitis]

Please can you tell me what makes it a cattle egret?

 

[Andy Adcock]

Please can you tell me what makes it a cattle egret?

Behaviour is a big clue, that's why it's called a 'Cattle' Egret, it's got a chunkier build than little with shorter, stronger legs without the obvious, contrasting, yellow feet.

One has been around in Saltram, where you perhaps anywhere near?

https://www.devonbirds.org/news/bird_news/devon_bird_sightings?blogEntry=13132

A

 

[socksitis]

Yes that is quite possible. So do little egrets have a stage without the yellow feet? I am no expert on these birds, but is a little egret more graceful in its appearance and a longer beak?

 

[stevethehydra]

Apologies for linking to photos of captive birds, but I hope it's OK for this purpose - some comparison shots of Little and Cattle Egrets together (in the aviary at Golders Hill Park in North London):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126840895@N05/20262746143/in/album-72157655424945194/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126840895@N05/20857653676/in/album-72157655424945194/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126840895@N05/20697141269/in/album-72157655424945194/

Your bird is a Cattle for me on structure (and location/behaviour), but I am finding it odd that it has such a non-yellow bill... though Opus says "Juvenile birds have a greyish-black wash to bill and legs", so maybe this is a first-winter bird that's a bit delayed in bare part colour?

 

[Andy Adcock]

Yes that is quite possible. So do little egrets have a stage without the yellow feet? I am no expert on these birds, but is a little egret more graceful in its appearance and a longer beak?

Feet will always be yellow but won't contrast with the yellow, rather than black, legs of a juvenile.

Unless it's a VERY wet field, you won't see a little Egret in a field, always near water.

A

 

[johnallcock]

For me this is a Little Egret, rather than Cattle.
Not only is the bill blackish, it also looks too long and slender for Cattle. Also it has white plumes starting to develop on the breast and back which Cattle Egret should never show (when a Cattle Egret does have these in the breeding season, they are orange).
The apparent lack of yellow feet could be the result of mud hiding the true colour.

Habitat is a useful clue but isn't exclusive - I've seen Little Egrets in dry fields a number of times, sometimes in flocks with Cattle Egrets.

 

[Andy Adcock]

For me this is a Little Egret, rather than Cattle.
Not only is the bill blackish, it also looks too long and slender for Cattle. Also it has white plumes starting to develop on the breast and back which Cattle Egret should never show (when a Cattle Egret does have these in the breeding season, they are orange).
The apparent lack of yellow feet could be the result of mud hiding the true colour.

Habitat is a useful clue but isn't exclusive - I've seen Little Egrets in dry fields a number of times, sometimes in flocks with Cattle Egrets.

Very thick legs if it's a Little....?

The bill is dirty from the mud.


A

 

[socksitis]

Apologies for linking to photos of captive birds, but I hope it's OK for this purpose - some comparison shots of Little and Cattle Egrets together (in the aviary at Golders Hill Park in North London):
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126840895@N05/20262746143/in/album-72157655424945194/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126840895@N05/20857653676/in/album-72157655424945194/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/126840895@N05/20697141269/in/album-72157655424945194/

Your bird is a Cattle for me on structure (and location/behaviour), but I am finding it odd that it has such a non-yellow bill... though Opus says "Juvenile birds have a greyish-black wash to bill and legs", so maybe this is a first-winter bird that's a bit delayed in bare part colour?

I am no expert, but I would agree with the notes on structure, colouring and bill size. When comparing to little egret, which is a graceful, sleek bird, with a slender bill, this is far more chunkier in the bill and certainly not graceful and neat in its appearance. Combined with the feet, I would say as you suggest a greater lean towards a cattle egret.

 

[cafe birder]

This looks like a little egret to me. Bill too long and fine for cattle. Around here near Bristol, we see little egrets more in fields than by water sometimes in flocks of 50 or more. Foot colour often altered by mud to appear same as legs.

The very heavily "jowled" look of a cattle egret is lacking here. This is caused, in cattle egret, by deeper feathering running farther along the underside of the bill than in little egret.

Bill colour also heavily influenced by where they are feeding as mud often alters is as well as perhaps causing the bill to look thicker than it really is.

regards Howard

 

[aeshna5]

I've seen Little Egrets in field with horses on my local patch in west London too.

 

[Dean Nicholson]

Little Egret - feet covered by mud.....

D

 

[stevethehydra]

Interesting that others seem to be clearly seeing a Little Egret here, when my first impression (like that of the observer) was "definitely not Little"...looking at photos again after further comments, I can't help still thinking the bill is far too thick relative to length for a Little, and the legs also look much thicker and shorter than "normal" for Little Egret to me... also it seems to me that the ground colour of the bill is pale/greyish (maybe a very dull yellow? definitely not bright yellow like you'd expect on adult Cattle though) and it looks darker at the tip due to mud...

I can't help wondering, unlikely as it is...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HpFPijYGAQ
http://www.birdguides.com/webzine/article.asp?a=4162

Or has anyone got good photos of a Cattle Egret in first-winter plumage (if it differs from winter adult enough to mean anything)?

 

[njlarsen]

I also do not see a (pure) little egret here. The length of the bill compared with the distance from where the feathers meet the upper mandible to the back of the head just seems to give a bill that is too short. It also seems to me that the feathering on the lower mandible just reaches a little too far out for LE.

This image is a CE is labeled "ready to fledge" but is from "Jhajjar, India" - don't know if that is important.

Niels

 

[stevethehydra]

Well, that's an August juvenile... the question is, what did that bird's bare parts look like 5 months later?

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

Little. The length of bill from the feathering on the underside to the tip is as long or longer than the distance from the end of feathering under the bill to the back of the eye‪. Contra Cattle.

 

[Paul Longland]

I agree with johnallcock comments. Went for the Cattle egrets at Saul in Glos last week. There were up to 7/8 birds at times in the fields with the horses and around the troughs. all were at medium distance. We managed to def. ID two Cattle and the rest we eventually had as Little, most likely first year birds as they had varying amounts of plumes both on the chest and nape and also pale grey bills. Much confusion reigned originally as no yellow feet on view and of course you are not supposed to get Little Egret in fields!. However, it was seeing them together of course that made it obvious due to size difference.

 

[Nutcracker]

The very heavily "jowled" look of a cattle egret is lacking here. This is caused, in cattle egret, by deeper feathering running farther along the underside of the bill than in little egret.

Actually, the odd thing is that the heavily "jowled" look of a cattle egret is showing here, with the feathering running well along the underside of the bill (see green outline added below); as commented already above:

Your bird is a Cattle for me on structure ...

But despite this, I agree with Little, if for no other reason than the mantle plumes on the second pic; Cattle wouldn't have them.

 

[tom baxter]

I cannot see this being a cattle egret or a pure little egret. Forgetting color, I think the bill and body structure looks off for both. No idea what else it would be.