White gull (1 Viewer)

[ste]

Hi all
I saw this Gull at Moore NR Cheshire England today. At first I thought it might be an albino herring gull because the plumage was almost totally white but now I think its a very worn 1st w Iceland gull. The head and bill shape point to iceland . The primary projection looks short but this may be due to wear.
What do you think?
Steve

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

I reckon Iceland Gull (probably 3rd cy) is the best bet.

 

[MSA]

Looks too white - but bill looks good for Iceland - I do wonder if it could be an albino Common Gull, though?

 

[ste]

I thought 1st w because the eye was dark, thats if it's iceland of course
Steve

 

[Vipers]

I have seen a leucistis Common Gull that looked very much like this bird and was reported as a first winter Iceland Gull. There is something about this bird that just doesn't look quite right for Iceland, but Its very hard to tell from a photo.

 

[deborah4]

interesting that it appears to be in very close proximity to what looks like a herring or common gull

 

[JANJ]

If the eye was dark (and eye looks a bit small for Iceland), 1st winter. A worn individual, and p-projection seems a bit on the short end. Bill looks a little long, and strong (male), but the pattern looks alright. There´s something wicked with it, it doesn´t shout Iceland.

Check:

http://www.tringa.no/pages/gull-news.html

JanJ

 

[Steven Astley]

I occasional birdwatch at Moore NR. So this thread interests me. The head shape seems wrong plus it's too white not a hint of any darkness. I think it's a leucistic or albinistic common gull. But i am no gull expert, very interesting gull indeed.

 

[Edward woodwood]

albino/leucistic Iceland?

bill shape appears better for Iceland, with the gonydeal angle...

Tim

 

[Steven Astley]

albino/leucistic Iceland?

bill shape appears better for Iceland, with the gonydeal angle...

Tim

I think the apparent gonydeal angle could be a ripple of the water, Tim. The problem I have is the head isn't like that of any of the iceland gulls i have googled. Whatever it its defo isn't a leucistic herring, everything shapewise is wrong for that.

 

[ste]

Thanks everyone for thier replies. The reason I said possible herring was that this bird was comparible in size to herring ( possibly a little smaller )and also this bird had pink legs which I think rules out common gull. Some female herring can look as sweet as this but I still favour iceland.

 

[Steven Astley]

Ste, pink legs wouldn't rule out first winter common.

After further googling and reading I now favour your original explanation, a worn 1st winter (pink base being typical of 1st winter)! Are you going to submit it to the local recorder. Hopefully you will and let is know what they say.

 

[ste]

Steven, sorry 1st w common does have pale pink legs but on this bird the pink seemed to be a deep pink which supports the Iceland camp.

I have attached a few more pics which might help with the ID.

1 The bird is hovering and shows the deep pink legs which also look short comapared to the nearby herring and lbb gulls. You can also see the amount of wear on the feathers. Juvenile Iceland don't moult any feathers until March so these feathers are 8/9 months old.

2 Flight shot shows the open wings. Does the arm/hand ratio look right for Iceland? Possilbly showing a couple of cinnamon marks on the mantle and scaps.The bird has a short rounded head which fits Iceland.

3 On the water the bird shows some faint barring on the under tail coverts which I think matches Iceland.

4 Another flight shot with size and structure comparison with the nearby herring gull

I also have a small ammount of video of this bird on the water which I will try and put up on my website in the next few days www.digitalbirds.co.uk

My first immpression was an albino herring gull because of the white plumage but I have now seen a few pictures of worn Iceland gulls being as white. I think with the head and bill shape and legs I now favour 1 st w Iceland gull. An interesting bird!

Steve Tomlinson

 

[ste]

Looks like no 4 has not loaded! Here it is.
I was going to go and look for this bird again today but it's blizzard conditions out there in the north west of England. At least the Iceland gull will feel at home
Steve

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Still think this looks fine for Iceland Gull. I've seen plenty as pale as this, particularly in late winter.

 

[AStevenson]

Living in the Outer Hebs I see lots of Icelands most winters, I'm happy it's a worn Iceland. Not unusual to see birds as pale as this, saw a 1st yr glauc yesterday that was almost as white as the bird in question.

Dark eye makes it 1st yr as does bill pattern - vitually all 2nd yrs or older show a dark subterminal band.

Photos do actually show some barring and fawn colouring - most noticeable on the flight shot showing the upperparts - wash visible on wing coverts and back and even on the tail. Also typical barring of Iceland on undertail albeit faint - unlike the sharp well spaced chevrons of 1st yr common.

We also have one or two leucistic adult common gulls here - they tend to show a pale brown 'Kumlien's' type wing tip pattern or be vitually all white - but structurally they look just like common gulls - they do get reported by visitors as Icelands or even on one occasion Ivory.

Cheers,
Andrew

 

[Dougie Preston]

I don't have a problem with this just being a typical Iceland at all.

 

[JANJ]

I don't have a problem with this just being a typical Iceland at all.

Me neither.
JanJ

 

[Edward woodwood]

nor me

anyone else wanna join in?

Tim

 

[Bubbs]

That is one big bill for an Iceland, but I'll bow to my learned friends. Is it just me or do I see spots on the undertail coverts?...what's that all about?

John.