maybe because the question is now redundant?So anyways guys, I was just wondering...Why are there no woodpeckers in Ireland?
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Why no Woodpeckers in Ireland (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter The Raptor
- Start date
Xenospiza
Distracted
If there is just one pair, I guess territorial behaviour will be minimal — so no reports of drumming seem logical to me. Some Dutch islands where GSW used to be rare show a similar pattern with birds "appearing" in July.
GSW drums throughout winter (on quiet sunny days anyway), so playback in February would be a good way to start searching. I don't really believe that all the birds present at that time would fly back to the UK across the Irish Sea.
Use of playback in the breeding season can of course be explained as disturbance. However, male woodpeckers tend to react pretty vigorously, so if you just let it believe it chased off the intruder (by stopping as soon as you hear something) it should be fine (see KN's method).
A word of caution: a birder surely is a safer and easier target to prosecute than a poacher... so keep the law in mind (get some sort of a "research permission" maybe, just to be safe?)
GSW drums throughout winter (on quiet sunny days anyway), so playback in February would be a good way to start searching. I don't really believe that all the birds present at that time would fly back to the UK across the Irish Sea.
Use of playback in the breeding season can of course be explained as disturbance. However, male woodpeckers tend to react pretty vigorously, so if you just let it believe it chased off the intruder (by stopping as soon as you hear something) it should be fine (see KN's method).
A word of caution: a birder surely is a safer and easier target to prosecute than a poacher... so keep the law in mind (get some sort of a "research permission" maybe, just to be safe?)
Jan-Paul Charteris
Sussex birder and budding moth enthusiast
Surely if 'disturbance' isn't defined in Irish law, at least in relation to ornithology, it would come down to the birder making a convincing argument that during the course of research he/she didn't disturb or disrupt the success of a breeding pair? As several others have pointed out, if playback is carried out early enough in the season then there will be no active nests yet (woodpeckers often use the same nest hole in consecutive seasons so technically there will be a nest but no eggs or young in it would seem to take it out of legal jurisdiction anyway?).
If playback was carried out in the ways that KN has suggested then it would not be difficult to tell quite quickly when he is in a woodpecker territory. Regardless of how vocal woodpeckers are in areas with low population densities compared to those with high population densities, they will always become very vocal if they do hear another male, even if it is a recording. From various online sources I reckon the average territory size to be about 8 to 10 ha in GS Woodpeckers. This may be larger if they did breed in Ireland because of low population density, but obviously this depends on the choice of habitat and quality of habitat. Either way this isn't very large and if a birder were 'tape-luring' in the territory a fairly rapid response could be expected. This would disturb the bird no more than the daily chore most species have in chasing off neighboring or intruding males. Less so in fact as no visual or posturing is made, and the apparent sound of an intruding bird stops at the very appearance of the bird holding territory.
If the playback is carried out as early as February or March then how on earth can it threaten the breeding success of a species? Territorial behaviour is displayed on the assumption that there at least may be neighboring territories or intruding birds. Again, as has already been pointed out, if birds failed to breed because of a very brief appearance of an intruding bird then surely no birds would end up breeding! Also in the eye of the law where is there any definition or case example that gives any proof that a male bird induced to defend its territory very early in the season then went on to fail to breed as a result (unless of course it was actually displaced from its territory by the intruder which would hardly be the case with a taped recording)? Even if following such a playback no birds bred in the area, if no nest had been located or possibly even no female found in the area, how would it be proven that the birds would have bred or even approached a nest anyway? If it was an offense to simply induce territorial behaviour in a single male bird (of a rare species) holding territory, with no nest or mate evident, then there must be a hell of a lot of guilty birders from the Oxfordshire Scops Owl twitch! And that bird even with all the disturbance, and bugger all chance of finding a mate still held territory all summer and returned the following year! Has anyone got any examples where using playback as a brief method simply to determine the presence of a territorial male actually led to failed breeding?
Let's just pretend for a minute that we aren't in a courtroom, and that we are in fact birders having an instructive chat/debate about how best to monitor populations in the bird's interests...may I ask Breffni if, law aside, he has any reason to personally suspect that playback in the way it's been described would hamper the breeding success of Irish woodpeckers? At least once we know a species is there we can monitor them and put conservation measures in place.
If anyone's interested there's an interesting paper on the nest site selection of GS and MS Woodpeckers here: http://www.zool.unizh.ch/static/ecology/people/gpasinelli/publications.html (top publication in the list). It gives a good account of monitoring techniques and population limitations, all of which are very relevant for the 'whys' and 'whats possibles' when it comes to speculating why a species struggles to spread into a certain area.
Jan
If playback was carried out in the ways that KN has suggested then it would not be difficult to tell quite quickly when he is in a woodpecker territory. Regardless of how vocal woodpeckers are in areas with low population densities compared to those with high population densities, they will always become very vocal if they do hear another male, even if it is a recording. From various online sources I reckon the average territory size to be about 8 to 10 ha in GS Woodpeckers. This may be larger if they did breed in Ireland because of low population density, but obviously this depends on the choice of habitat and quality of habitat. Either way this isn't very large and if a birder were 'tape-luring' in the territory a fairly rapid response could be expected. This would disturb the bird no more than the daily chore most species have in chasing off neighboring or intruding males. Less so in fact as no visual or posturing is made, and the apparent sound of an intruding bird stops at the very appearance of the bird holding territory.
If the playback is carried out as early as February or March then how on earth can it threaten the breeding success of a species? Territorial behaviour is displayed on the assumption that there at least may be neighboring territories or intruding birds. Again, as has already been pointed out, if birds failed to breed because of a very brief appearance of an intruding bird then surely no birds would end up breeding! Also in the eye of the law where is there any definition or case example that gives any proof that a male bird induced to defend its territory very early in the season then went on to fail to breed as a result (unless of course it was actually displaced from its territory by the intruder which would hardly be the case with a taped recording)? Even if following such a playback no birds bred in the area, if no nest had been located or possibly even no female found in the area, how would it be proven that the birds would have bred or even approached a nest anyway? If it was an offense to simply induce territorial behaviour in a single male bird (of a rare species) holding territory, with no nest or mate evident, then there must be a hell of a lot of guilty birders from the Oxfordshire Scops Owl twitch! And that bird even with all the disturbance, and bugger all chance of finding a mate still held territory all summer and returned the following year! Has anyone got any examples where using playback as a brief method simply to determine the presence of a territorial male actually led to failed breeding?
Let's just pretend for a minute that we aren't in a courtroom, and that we are in fact birders having an instructive chat/debate about how best to monitor populations in the bird's interests...may I ask Breffni if, law aside, he has any reason to personally suspect that playback in the way it's been described would hamper the breeding success of Irish woodpeckers? At least once we know a species is there we can monitor them and put conservation measures in place.
If anyone's interested there's an interesting paper on the nest site selection of GS and MS Woodpeckers here: http://www.zool.unizh.ch/static/ecology/people/gpasinelli/publications.html (top publication in the list). It gives a good account of monitoring techniques and population limitations, all of which are very relevant for the 'whys' and 'whats possibles' when it comes to speculating why a species struggles to spread into a certain area.
Jan
Hi Jan,
If it was done only occasionally in the way described it would be unlikely to cause a problem. However if it was done on a daily basis by dozens of twitchers, then it could put off the bird. There are few birders in Ireland so it is unlikely that this situation would arise and anyway, I've heard of only one prosecution ever based playback by twitchers (like many laws, it is framed in such a way that the authoraties have discretion on wheather to prosecute). Having said that I personally would not take the risk on GWS and would generally avoid playback on breeding birds. The prohibition only applies to breeding birds, so outside the breeding season its a free for all. In the UK where there are reportedly half a million bird watchers, i'd suggest that it would be more of a problem, which i guess is the reason why the UK law is so specific.
Last edited:
The Birdwatchers Code
I thought I might reproduce this in full - see highlighted point regarding playback. (http://www.surfbirds.com/mb/Features/birdwatchers-code.html)
Almost three million adults go birdwatching every year in the UK. Following The birdwatchers' code is good practice, common sense and should enable us all to enjoy seeing birds. It puts the interests of birds first and respects other people, whether or not they are interested in birds. It applies not just when you are at a nature reserve, but whenever you are watching birds in the UK or abroad. It will be most effective if we lead by example and sensitively challenge the minority of birdwatchers who behave inappropriately.
Five things to remember:
Avoid disturbing birds and their habitats - the birds' interests should always come first.
· Be an ambassador for birdwatching.
· Know the law and the rules for visiting the countryside, and follow them.
· Send your sightings to the County Bird Recorder and www.birdtrack.net.
· Think about the interests of wildlife and local people before passing on news of a rare bird, especially during the breeding season.
The interests of the bird come first
Birds respond to people in many ways, depending on the species, location and time of year. Disturbance can keep birds from their nests, leaving chicks hungry or enabling predators to take eggs or young. During cold weather or when migrants have just made a long flight, repeatedly flushing birds can mean they use up vital energy that they need for feeding. Intentional or reckless disturbance of some species at or near the nest is illegal in Britain.
Whether your particular interest is photography, ringing, sound-recording or birdwatching, remember that the interests of the bird must always come first.
· Avoid going too close to birds or disturbing their habitats - if a bird flies away or makes repeated alarm calls, you're too close. And if it leaves, you won't get a good view.
· Stay on roads and paths where they exist and avoid disturbing habitat used by birds.
· Think about your fieldcraft. Disturbance is not just about going too close - a flock of wading birds on the foreshore can be disturbed from a mile away if you stand on the seawall.
· Repeatedly playing a recording of birdsong or calls to encourage a bird to respond can divert a territorial bird from other important duties, such as feeding its young. Never use playback to attract a species during its breeding season. (See 'The law', below, in relation to Schedule 1 species in the UK.)
Be an ambassador for birdwatching
Think about your fieldcraft and behaviour, not just so that you can enjoy your birdwatching, but so others can too.
Respond positively to questions from interested passers-by. They may not be birdwatchers yet, but a good view of a bird or a helpful answer may light a spark of interest. Your enthusiasm could start a lifetime's interest in birds and a greater appreciation of wildlife and its conservation.
Consider using local services, such as pubs, restaurants and petrol stations, and public transport. Raising awareness of the benefits to local communities of trade from visiting birdwatchers may, ultimately, help the birds themselves.
Know the rules for visiting the countryside, and follow them
Respect the wishes of local residents and landowners, and don't enter private land without permission unless it is open for public access on foot. Follow the codes on access and the countryside for the place you're walking in (see 'Access to the countryside', below).
Irresponsible behaviour may cause a land manager to deny access to others (eg for necessary survey work). It may also disturb the bird or give birdwatching bad coverage in the media.
Access to the countryside
Legislation provides access for walkers to open country in Britain, and includes measures to protect wildlife. Note that the rules and codes are different in each part of Britain, so plan ahead and make sure you know what you can do.
In England and Wales, access is to land mapped as mountain, moor, heath and down, and to registered common land. However, local restrictions may be in force, so follow the Countryside Code and plan your visit. In England, the Countryside Code and maps showing areas for public access are online at www.countrysideaccess.gov.uk. In Wales, access maps are at www.ccw.gov.uk/tirgofal and the Countryside Code at www.codcefngwlad.org.uk.
In Scotland, access is available to open country and to field margins of enclosed land to reach open country, provided you act in accordance with the Scottish Access Code - see www.outdooraccess-scotland.com.
Although there is no statutory right of access in Northern Ireland, there is lots of information, including the Country Code, at www.countrysiderecreation.com.
Make your sightings count
Add to tomorrow's knowledge of birds by sending your sightings to www.birdtrack.net. This online recording scheme from the BTO, RSPB and BirdWatch Ireland enables you to store all your birdwatching records and support species and site conservation. With one click, you can have you records forwarded automatically to the relevant county recorder.
Send your sightings to county recorders and local bird clubs, a mainstay of bird recording in the UK. Your records are important for local conservation and to build the county's ornithological history. For a list of the County Bird Recorders, visit www.britishbirds.co.uk/countyrecorders or ask at your local library.
Get involved in national monitoring schemes too, such as the Breeding Bird Survey and the Wetland Bird Survey (see www.bto.org for details).
If you've been birdwatching abroad, visit www.worldbirds.org and give your sightings to the BirdLife International Partner in that country. Your data could be vital in protecting sites and species in the country you've visited.
Rare birds
Mobile phones, telephone and pager services and the internet mean you can now share your sightings instantly. If you discover a rare bird, please bear the following in mind:
· Consider the potential impact of spreading the news and make an effort to inform the landowner (or, on a nature reserve, the warden) first. Think about whether the site can cope with a large number of visitors and whether sensitive species might be at risk, such as breeding terns, flocks of wading birds or rare plants. The County Bird Recorder or another experienced birdwatcher can often give good advice.
· On private land, always talk to the landowner first. With a little planning, access can often be arranged.
· Twitches can raise money for a local reserve, other wildlife project or charity. Consider organising a voluntary collection at access points to the site.
· Rare breeding birds are at risk from egg-collectors and some birds of prey from persecution. If you discover a rare breeding species that you think is vulnerable, contact the RSPB, which has considerable experience in protecting rare breeding birds, and report it to the County Bird Recorder or the Rare Breeding Birds Panel (www.rbbp.org.uk). Also, consider telling the landowner - in most cases, this will ensure that the nest is not disturbed accidentally.
If you have the opportunity to see a rare bird, enjoy it, but don't let your enthusiasm override common sense. In addition to the guidelines above:
· If you twitch a rare bird, park sensibly, follow instructions and consider making a donation if requested.
· Don't get too close for a photograph - you'll earn the wrath of everyone else if you flush the bird out of sight.
· Be patient if the viewing is limited, talk quietly and give others a chance to see the bird too.
· Do not enter private areas without permission.
· Birds should never be flushed in important wildlife habitats or where there are other nesting or roosting birds nearby. Birds should not be flushed more frequently than every two hours nor within two hours of sunrise or sunset, so the bird has chance to feed and rest.
The law
Laws protecting birds and their habitats have helped to secure the conservation of many species. They are the result of hard campaigning by generations of birdwatchers. We must make sure that we don't allow them to fall into disrepute.
In England, Scotland and Wales, it is a criminal offence to disturb, intentionally or recklessly, at or near the nest, a species listed on Schedule 1 of the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981 (see www.rspb.org.uk for a full list). Disturbance could include playback of songs and calls. The courts can impose fines of up to £5,000 and/or a prison sentence of up to six months for each offence.
In Scotland, disturbance of capercaillie and ruffs at leks is also an offence. It is a criminal offence to disturb intentionally a bird at or near the nest under the Wildlife (Northern Ireland) Order 1985.
The government can, for particular reasons such as scientific study, issue licences to individuals that permit limited disturbance, including monitoring of nests and ringing.
It is a criminal offence to destroy or damage, intentionally or recklessly, a special interest feature of a Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) or to disturb the wildlife for which the site was notified. In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, a fine of up to £20,000 may be imposed by the Magistrates' Court, or an unlimited fine by the Crown Court. In Scotland, the maximum fine on summary conviction is £40,000, or an unlimited fine on conviction on indictment.
If you witness anyone who you suspect may be illegally disturbing or destroying wildlife or habitat, phone the police immediately (ideally, with a six-figure map reference) and report it to the RSPB.
The birdwatchers' code has been produced by a partnership of The Association of County Recorders and Editors
The British Ornithologists' Union www.bou.org.uk; British Trust for Ornithology www.bto.org; The RSPB www.rspb.org.uk; Scottish Ornithologists' Club www.the-soc.fsnet.co.uk; Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust www.wwt.org.uk; Birdwatch www.birdwatch.co.uk; Bird Watching www.birdwatching.co.uk; British Birds www.britishbirds.co.uk; Rare Bird Alert www.rarebirdalert.co.uk; BirdNet Information www.birdnetinformation.co.uk; www.birdguides.com; www.surfbirds.com
I thought I might reproduce this in full - see highlighted point regarding playback. (http://www.surfbirds.com/mb/Features/birdwatchers-code.html)
Almost three million adults go birdwatching every year in the UK. Following The birdwatchers' code is good practice, common sense and should enable us all to enjoy seeing birds. It puts the interests of birds first and respects other people, whether or not they are interested in birds. It applies not just when you are at a nature reserve, but whenever you are watching birds in the UK or abroad. It will be most effective if we lead by example and sensitively challenge the minority of birdwatchers who behave inappropriately.
Five things to remember:
Avoid disturbing birds and their habitats - the birds' interests should always come first.
· Be an ambassador for birdwatching.
· Know the law and the rules for visiting the countryside, and follow them.
· Send your sightings to the County Bird Recorder and www.birdtrack.net.
· Think about the interests of wildlife and local people before passing on news of a rare bird, especially during the breeding season.
The interests of the bird come first
Birds respond to people in many ways, depending on the species, location and time of year. Disturbance can keep birds from their nests, leaving chicks hungry or enabling predators to take eggs or young. During cold weather or when migrants have just made a long flight, repeatedly flushing birds can mean they use up vital energy that they need for feeding. Intentional or reckless disturbance of some species at or near the nest is illegal in Britain.
Whether your particular interest is photography, ringing, sound-recording or birdwatching, remember that the interests of the bird must always come first.
· Avoid going too close to birds or disturbing their habitats - if a bird flies away or makes repeated alarm calls, you're too close. And if it leaves, you won't get a good view.
· Stay on roads and paths where they exist and avoid disturbing habitat used by birds.
· Think about your fieldcraft. Disturbance is not just about going too close - a flock of wading birds on the foreshore can be disturbed from a mile away if you stand on the seawall.
· Repeatedly playing a recording of birdsong or calls to encourage a bird to respond can divert a territorial bird from other important duties, such as feeding its young. Never use playback to attract a species during its breeding season. (See 'The law', below, in relation to Schedule 1 species in the UK.)
Be an ambassador for birdwatching
Think about your fieldcraft and behaviour, not just so that you can enjoy your birdwatching, but so others can too.
Respond positively to questions from interested passers-by. They may not be birdwatchers yet, but a good view of a bird or a helpful answer may light a spark of interest. Your enthusiasm could start a lifetime's interest in birds and a greater appreciation of wildlife and its conservation.
Consider using local services, such as pubs, restaurants and petrol stations, and public transport. Raising awareness of the benefits to local communities of trade from visiting birdwatchers may, ultimately, help the birds themselves.
Know the rules for visiting the countryside, and follow them
Respect the wishes of local residents and landowners, and don't enter private land without permission unless it is open for public access on foot. Follow the codes on access and the countryside for the place you're walking in (see 'Access to the countryside', below).
Irresponsible behaviour may cause a land manager to deny access to others (eg for necessary survey work). It may also disturb the bird or give birdwatching bad coverage in the media.
Access to the countryside
Legislation provides access for walkers to open country in Britain, and includes measures to protect wildlife. Note that the rules and codes are different in each part of Britain, so plan ahead and make sure you know what you can do.
In England and Wales, access is to land mapped as mountain, moor, heath and down, and to registered common land. However, local restrictions may be in force, so follow the Countryside Code and plan your visit. In England, the Countryside Code and maps showing areas for public access are online at www.countrysideaccess.gov.uk. In Wales, access maps are at www.ccw.gov.uk/tirgofal and the Countryside Code at www.codcefngwlad.org.uk.
In Scotland, access is available to open country and to field margins of enclosed land to reach open country, provided you act in accordance with the Scottish Access Code - see www.outdooraccess-scotland.com.
Although there is no statutory right of access in Northern Ireland, there is lots of information, including the Country Code, at www.countrysiderecreation.com.
Make your sightings count
Add to tomorrow's knowledge of birds by sending your sightings to www.birdtrack.net. This online recording scheme from the BTO, RSPB and BirdWatch Ireland enables you to store all your birdwatching records and support species and site conservation. With one click, you can have you records forwarded automatically to the relevant county recorder.
Send your sightings to county recorders and local bird clubs, a mainstay of bird recording in the UK. Your records are important for local conservation and to build the county's ornithological history. For a list of the County Bird Recorders, visit www.britishbirds.co.uk/countyrecorders or ask at your local library.
Get involved in national monitoring schemes too, such as the Breeding Bird Survey and the Wetland Bird Survey (see www.bto.org for details).
If you've been birdwatching abroad, visit www.worldbirds.org and give your sightings to the BirdLife International Partner in that country. Your data could be vital in protecting sites and species in the country you've visited.
Rare birds
Mobile phones, telephone and pager services and the internet mean you can now share your sightings instantly. If you discover a rare bird, please bear the following in mind:
· Consider the potential impact of spreading the news and make an effort to inform the landowner (or, on a nature reserve, the warden) first. Think about whether the site can cope with a large number of visitors and whether sensitive species might be at risk, such as breeding terns, flocks of wading birds or rare plants. The County Bird Recorder or another experienced birdwatcher can often give good advice.
· On private land, always talk to the landowner first. With a little planning, access can often be arranged.
· Twitches can raise money for a local reserve, other wildlife project or charity. Consider organising a voluntary collection at access points to the site.
· Rare breeding birds are at risk from egg-collectors and some birds of prey from persecution. If you discover a rare breeding species that you think is vulnerable, contact the RSPB, which has considerable experience in protecting rare breeding birds, and report it to the County Bird Recorder or the Rare Breeding Birds Panel (www.rbbp.org.uk). Also, consider telling the landowner - in most cases, this will ensure that the nest is not disturbed accidentally.
If you have the opportunity to see a rare bird, enjoy it, but don't let your enthusiasm override common sense. In addition to the guidelines above:
· If you twitch a rare bird, park sensibly, follow instructions and consider making a donation if requested.
· Don't get too close for a photograph - you'll earn the wrath of everyone else if you flush the bird out of sight.
· Be patient if the viewing is limited, talk quietly and give others a chance to see the bird too.
· Do not enter private areas without permission.
· Birds should never be flushed in important wildlife habitats or where there are other nesting or roosting birds nearby. Birds should not be flushed more frequently than every two hours nor within two hours of sunrise or sunset, so the bird has chance to feed and rest.
The law
Laws protecting birds and their habitats have helped to secure the conservation of many species. They are the result of hard campaigning by generations of birdwatchers. We must make sure that we don't allow them to fall into disrepute.
In England, Scotland and Wales, it is a criminal offence to disturb, intentionally or recklessly, at or near the nest, a species listed on Schedule 1 of the Wildlife & Countryside Act 1981 (see www.rspb.org.uk for a full list). Disturbance could include playback of songs and calls. The courts can impose fines of up to £5,000 and/or a prison sentence of up to six months for each offence.
In Scotland, disturbance of capercaillie and ruffs at leks is also an offence. It is a criminal offence to disturb intentionally a bird at or near the nest under the Wildlife (Northern Ireland) Order 1985.
The government can, for particular reasons such as scientific study, issue licences to individuals that permit limited disturbance, including monitoring of nests and ringing.
It is a criminal offence to destroy or damage, intentionally or recklessly, a special interest feature of a Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI) or to disturb the wildlife for which the site was notified. In England, Wales and Northern Ireland, a fine of up to £20,000 may be imposed by the Magistrates' Court, or an unlimited fine by the Crown Court. In Scotland, the maximum fine on summary conviction is £40,000, or an unlimited fine on conviction on indictment.
If you witness anyone who you suspect may be illegally disturbing or destroying wildlife or habitat, phone the police immediately (ideally, with a six-figure map reference) and report it to the RSPB.
The birdwatchers' code has been produced by a partnership of The Association of County Recorders and Editors
The British Ornithologists' Union www.bou.org.uk; British Trust for Ornithology www.bto.org; The RSPB www.rspb.org.uk; Scottish Ornithologists' Club www.the-soc.fsnet.co.uk; Wildfowl and Wetlands Trust www.wwt.org.uk; Birdwatch www.birdwatch.co.uk; Bird Watching www.birdwatching.co.uk; British Birds www.britishbirds.co.uk; Rare Bird Alert www.rarebirdalert.co.uk; BirdNet Information www.birdnetinformation.co.uk; www.birdguides.com; www.surfbirds.com
Jan-Paul Charteris
Sussex birder and budding moth enthusiast
I agree totally with the code of conduct and of course it is best to minimize disturbance to breeding birds and any impact on their habitat. The main point on the Woodpeckers for me is that you can't conserve or monitor a species if you're not aware of it's presence. Territorial behaviour in GS Woodpeckers peaks long before there are any eggs layed, let alone adults feeding young. Also playback would be at its most effective during this peak in activity and would presumably make playback thereafter pointless. By simply using it to determine the presence of a territorial male in, for example, March, once this is established any further recording or monitoring could be done by sight alone. There territories are small enough to make this fairly easy. Once they have got young begging from the nest of course, they are so loud that the nest hole can be located from quite some distance!
The case of twitchers using playback is something different. I neither condemn nor condone it, it's not something I personally do. It's up to them to put aside just wanting to see something and decide for themselves whether its likely to cause disturbance or not. From what I've seen its more of a common tactic in day- or year-listing, especially for species like owls.
To put it in perspective, I'm not anti-ringing either but there have been calls on this thread for data from ringing recoveries to ascertain whether juv GSWs could disperse to Ireland. Surely if tape luring disturbs a bird, catching and holding it and blinging it up with a new ring would disturb it even more! This is even carried out at the nestling stage on some of the UK's rarest birds. I do believe it is necessary to help conserve species but it also needed mentioning in putting tape luring into perspective.
As a little aside on the issue of tape luring rare birds in Ireland, I seem to recall a photo of a very happy looking Irish chap earlier this year holding the first Cory's Shearwater to set foot on Irish soil Tape lured at a breeding colony where presumably it didn't have much chance of breeding. I'm not against it and actually quite envied the bloke but surely if this wasn't illegal in Irish law then inducing a territorial response from a GSW that is not known to breed yet and before the breeding season wouldn't be either?
Jan
The case of twitchers using playback is something different. I neither condemn nor condone it, it's not something I personally do. It's up to them to put aside just wanting to see something and decide for themselves whether its likely to cause disturbance or not. From what I've seen its more of a common tactic in day- or year-listing, especially for species like owls.
To put it in perspective, I'm not anti-ringing either but there have been calls on this thread for data from ringing recoveries to ascertain whether juv GSWs could disperse to Ireland. Surely if tape luring disturbs a bird, catching and holding it and blinging it up with a new ring would disturb it even more! This is even carried out at the nestling stage on some of the UK's rarest birds. I do believe it is necessary to help conserve species but it also needed mentioning in putting tape luring into perspective.
As a little aside on the issue of tape luring rare birds in Ireland, I seem to recall a photo of a very happy looking Irish chap earlier this year holding the first Cory's Shearwater to set foot on Irish soil
Tape lured at a breeding colony where presumably it didn't have much chance of breeding. I'm not against it and actually quite envied the bloke but surely if this wasn't illegal in Irish law then inducing a territorial response from a GSW that is not known to breed yet and before the breeding season wouldn't be either?Jan
You can disturb something that is not there. Even if Irish law does prohibit disturbance to breeding birds, Great Spotted Woodpecker is not a recorded breeding species (as yet), so anyone using playback in February/March to locate the possible presence, ie prior to the breeding season, could not possibly be convicted of disturbing a breeding bird (unless Irish law also allows for disturbing possible future breeders, then anything and everything would be illegal).
As a little aside on the issue of tape luring rare birds in Ireland, I seem to recall a photo of a very happy looking Irish chap earlier this year holding the first Cory's Shearwater to set foot on Irish soil
Jan
Hi Jan, the gentlemen in question would have been acting under license, which is the right way to do these things...
KnockerNorton
Well-known member
what has any of that got to do with woodpeckers and playback? At all? That's to do with mowing grass.
KnockerNorton
Well-known member
that is opinion, a suggested voluntary code. It is not law, and nobody is obliged to abide by it.
I do not know of any published study where playback has been shown to 'divert a bird from other important duties'. In any case, birds are generally much less territorial when feeding young, and response to playback (or another male) is generally low/non-existent.
The law as stated has no impact on using playback to find woodpeckers in Jan-Apr, as they are not breeding at this stage.
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KnockerNorton
Well-known member
you know this for a fact, do you?
Given they have yet to be shown to breed in Ireland, I think this should be...
The law as stated has no impact on using playback to find woodpeckers in Jan-Dec, as they are not breeding at this stage.
You suspect fowl play on the skelligs constable norton - probably needs looking into all right...i'll leave it to your considerable investagitive skills!
no doubt...
This fairly new irish web site has a summary of GSW sightings: http://www.irishbirding.com/birds/web - enter "great spotted woodpecker" as a keyword...
KnockerNorton
Well-known member
None of those seem to have hung around for more than a few days....
Hi all,
I shall have to turn myself over to the local Garda (police) station, and admit to having consciously used playback in the breeding season in an effort to determine the presence or absence of certain species for the ongoing Atlas. In particular, I have twice used playback of a recording of Grasshopper Warbler 'crystallised' song this summer in areas of suitable-looking habitat (where no birds were heard singing at the time), and twice been successful in eliciting a brief aggressive response from a previously unseen and unheard Grasshopper Warbler, which then soon retreated in both cases, playback having been terminated once the bird emerged, and we moved on to look for other species elsewhere, 99% of which were recorded without said playback.
Were it not for the judicious and careful use of playback, on both occasions in areas where other birders will almost certainly not set foot over the next decade, we would not have recorded this species in those tetrads (or perhaps even those 10km squares?), so, while this may count as breaking the law, I am sure that the ends justified the means, in this case anyway. Of course, I am against the use of playback at well-known 'stakeouts' for scarce or rare breeding species (I won't go in to locations here, but we all know the well-known sites for Wood Warblers etc), as repeated use of this could well disrupt the breeding efforts of a species, but, as KnockerNorton (and Mark Constantine in the excellent Sound Approach to Birding) mentioned, judicious use of playback, to approximate the fleeting intrusion by an interloping male, doesn't really do any harm to a given pair of a species...abuse of this, such as prolonged usage, may do so, but this is largely unnecessary from the point of view of a birder or ornitholigist anyway, as it is usually used as a tool to establish presence or to lure a bird out to begin with, not to keep it out in the open afterwards.
I would imagine that, if GSW are breeding, however, the use of playback may not be necessary: listening out for drumming (early in the year) or calls (all year round) would suffice.
Regards,
Harry
I shall have to turn myself over to the local Garda (police) station, and admit to having consciously used playback in the breeding season in an effort to determine the presence or absence of certain species for the ongoing Atlas. In particular, I have twice used playback of a recording of Grasshopper Warbler 'crystallised' song this summer in areas of suitable-looking habitat (where no birds were heard singing at the time), and twice been successful in eliciting a brief aggressive response from a previously unseen and unheard Grasshopper Warbler, which then soon retreated in both cases, playback having been terminated once the bird emerged, and we moved on to look for other species elsewhere, 99% of which were recorded without said playback.
Were it not for the judicious and careful use of playback, on both occasions in areas where other birders will almost certainly not set foot over the next decade, we would not have recorded this species in those tetrads (or perhaps even those 10km squares?), so, while this may count as breaking the law, I am sure that the ends justified the means, in this case anyway. Of course, I am against the use of playback at well-known 'stakeouts' for scarce or rare breeding species (I won't go in to locations here, but we all know the well-known sites for Wood Warblers etc), as repeated use of this could well disrupt the breeding efforts of a species, but, as KnockerNorton (and Mark Constantine in the excellent Sound Approach to Birding) mentioned, judicious use of playback, to approximate the fleeting intrusion by an interloping male, doesn't really do any harm to a given pair of a species...abuse of this, such as prolonged usage, may do so, but this is largely unnecessary from the point of view of a birder or ornitholigist anyway, as it is usually used as a tool to establish presence or to lure a bird out to begin with, not to keep it out in the open afterwards.
I would imagine that, if GSW are breeding, however, the use of playback may not be necessary: listening out for drumming (early in the year) or calls (all year round) would suffice.
Regards,
Harry
pianoman
duck and diver, bobolink and weaver
I'd love to be there to hear the conversation between you and the local guard.
KnockerNorton
Well-known member
what if you'd used a fishing reel instead? No line, just a reel, winding it while walking about?
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