Zen Ray Prime HD (2 Viewers)

[FrankD]

Mark,

I think he was probably referring to the eyepiece design. If I remember correctly the ZRS had an elaborate eyepiece design to aid in flatness of field and the size of the sweet spot. This is just going by memory from past discussions focusing on the ZRS. I don't think it is unreasonable to assume that they may have used the ZRS eyepiece design as a baseline for designing something that is truly sharp from edge to edge.

From what I heard Charles mention at the MBS, the traditional hinge design needed to be utilized because of the depth of the eyepiece design into the binocular body. Apparently it was simpler to go with a traditional hinge design to avoid any problems.

The assumption of ED3 color representation, CA control, etc... but with edge to edge sharpness/flatness is probably accurate based on my discussion with him at the MBS.

 

[looksharp65]

Please, please, let it be a clockwise focuser... the ZRS is not

 

[BinoBoy]

Frank,

OK, that makes more sense. I'm excited again.

 

[Steve C]

Well, I'm really looking forward to having the chance to look at one of the Prime HD.

I have had quite a bit of back and forth with Charles and we need to be aware of a couple of things I think. There is a definite attempt to significantly flatten the field of view and a significant attempt to sharpen the edge performance of the previous flagship ZEN ED 2-3binoculars with the Prime HD. There is no intent to be a direct knock off counterfeit copy of Swarovski or Swarovision. My advice to him was to stay as far away from similarity to Swarovski as was possible. If I recall correctly, there WILL BE SOME PINCUSHION distortion in the field edge of the Prime HD, as the attempt is to improve the previous ZEN ED, not to do a cheaper Swarovski.

The design, as I recall the conversation with Charles, is similar to the ZRS HD, not necessarily based off the design. So to address the question posed by Looksharp, I think (operative word is think ) that the focus is indeed clockwise.

 

[brocknroller]

Glad to hear there will be "some pincushion" distortion to prevent "rolling ball" but not too much pincushion like the ED2.

Too much distortion across the field (pincushion) and at the edges (field curvature) were my main objections with the ED2. The eyecups could have used more intermittent stops, and I'd like to see a new eyecup design that is constructed with a metal frame covered with a rubber eyecup like the Nikon HG and others. And more cone shaped than the ED2 to accommodate deeper set eyes.

I have also noticed the sample variation in focuser smoothness in the ED2. My first sample was hard to turn, the second smooth. QC should be stepped up at this price point.

I look forward to the introduction of ZR Prime ED. The 7x36 ED2 was very bright and had the cleanest centerfield image I've seen in binoculars. No CA for my eyes, and I'm susceptible to CA. Contrast and color saturation were also very good.

The open bridge design worked better for my hands than the big EL, the Promaster Infinity ED, and Hawke Frontier ED. Only the baby EL was more comfortable. it looks like the photo Frank posted from the catalog is a closed bridge roof like the ZRS. Hope that changes.

I also liked the 7x36 ED2's depth perception and 3-D effect, which was better than any other roof I've tried - almost porro-like.

If ZR keeps all the good stuff, cleans up the distortions and makes the mechanics sound, I think the Prime ED has the potential to "take the world by storm" the way the ED2 did at its price point.

With Euro optics prices gone mad at WHY2K?, I suspect the second tier will be a strong area of growth in the future. I'd like to see more bins for buyers who want good quality optics, but who can't afford to pay or don't want to pay through the proboscis, and who are willing to trade off the big brand name and the "the cachet in the field" that brings and some "overbuild" and that last 5-10% difference in optical quality for more affordable priced Chinese-made optics.

The Primes are priced within my budget. My interest is piqued!

Brock

 

[FrankD]

The open bridge design worked better for my hands than the big EL, the Promaster Infinity ED, and Hawke Frontier ED. Only the baby EL was more comfortable. it looks like the photo Frank posted from the catalog is a closed bridge roof like the ZRS. Hope that changes.

Sorry Brock. From what Charles related they have to go with the traditional hinge design to avoid an issue with the length of the eyepiece and the focusing mechanism.

 

[jgraider]

Can't wait to see them myself. The noose will get a little tighter around the euro makers necks, IMO.

 

[spacepilot]

Please, please, let it be a clockwise focuser... the ZRS is not

Ah, that's one thing I haven't considered. Yes, Charles, please make it turning clockwise to infinity.

 

[ZEN-RAY]

Ah, that's one thing I haven't considered. Yes, Charles, please make it turning clockwise to infinity.

I think it is.

Charles

 

[jaymoynihan]

Did you ask if there will be independent reviews some day, and of the new prime HD?
Are they sending a pair to Allbino?

 

[looksharp65]

I think it is.

Charles

:t:

 

[ZEN-RAY]

I do believe that Charles has been asked about the future of a 7x43 Prime HD and that there was an issue with that specific eyepiece design not allowing for a magnification less than 8x. He would probably have to chime in to clarify that issue though as I was too excited about having the 7x43 ED3 in hand to play with. The easiest way I can relate its performance is to imagine having the optical performance of the 7x42 Zeiss FL at 1/4 the price. From what Charles mentioned the selling price of the 7x43 ED3 should be around $400 when all is said and done. How is that for affordable?

Frank, that's right. I wish we could produce a 7x42 PRIME HD. But 8x is as low as our designer is comfortable with it for PRIME HD due to optical and machanical constraints. I trust this conservative approach based on their prior works on 7x36 ED2 and 7x43 ED3.

Charles

 

[Raybo]

I'm saving up my $ again! :t:

 

[FrankD]

....and I think a full APO-ED triplet objective.

Just wanted to post this little tidbit of info I pulled from another forum. I don't think it was referenced in regard to the Prime HD previously here in this thread.

 

[David Swain]

Could you give us the context for this?

 

[FrankD]

The quote was pulled from a larger post from over on opticstalk. Though not mentioned in the catalog the Prime HD will reportedly sport a full APO triplet objective in the design.

Hopefully Charles will chime in on this issue.

 

[henry link]

I saw this quote at Opticstalk. It didn't come from Zen-Ray and hopefully they will not be making any spurious claims of "full APO" color correction, which no binocular has or needs to have. The "triplet" part should be true since all internal focus binoculars have objectives of at least three elements including the focuser. Most of the time it's four (3 fixed elements and 1 moving focusing lens) and occasionally five (3 fixed elements and a doublet focusing group)

 

[ZEN-RAY]

Frank, PRIME HD has a triplet ED objective lens system and one additional focuser lens. The color correction performance with ED glass will inherit a lot from ZEN EDx series.

Charles

 

[FrankD]

Henry, Charles,

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[Nixterdemus]

No sense in waiting three months to revive the thread. I gave away my Ed II 7x36 though I'm somewhat piqued by the buzz about town on Das Prime Uber Doody nonetheless.

What gives, when's the release and what's the hold-up?

It's not as if I'm getting any younger as just another year fades into obscurity.

ETA: I poke a little fun yet the Shot Show is only about three weeks hence, so I figure it's about time to release the Prime. I'm interested in reading what others think after peering through this flatter than ED3, yet still w/some PC to prevent RB.

I'm also curious how they differ from the Caldera as it appears the price of the Prime will be around 1.5X that of the Kruger flagship as I understand.