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Name changes. Fit for purpose? (1 Viewer)

Twite

Well-known member
Hi.

When the existing latin names have been in use for a while, they obviously have been accepted by all and have been serving their purpose. Ordinary birders like me take some effort to learn some of the names (mostly having no idea what they mean) and take a little pride in having done so. Then along comes the elite and start to play bird scrabble, probably in between inventing names for cars and mobile phones. As more is learned about regional variations, differing habits etc. it becomes neccessary to make changes, but its not as if new species are being churned out. Is this justifying their purpose? The average birder would be happier if things were left as they were. Average birder = me and many others.

Twite.

I'm probably not the first to rant about this, but the Tax and Nom subforum is
a cold lonely place, I couldn't stay long enough to find out.

Now I await death by a thousand cuts.
 
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basically, it goes like this: when species were first given their names, this was based on their appearance and apparent relatedness to each other based on what they looked like. However, we are now in the DNA age, where we can now examine how related species are at the molecular level, which is obviously more accurate and an improvement. So species need to be renamed, new genus created etc. Also, not all of the existing names follow the same rules. So there is also an attempt to standardise names too, so that they make more sense. An example is the Willow Tit. This was originally names Parus montanus, named because it looked like another tit so lumped in with eg Blue Tit and Great Tit. However, we now know (thought mDNA analyses) that the tits are not as closely realted, so the brown tits (chickadees) were given a new genus: Poecile. This is obviously sensible, because willow tit and great tit are totally different and not closely related. But then there's another problem: Poecile is a feminised name, whereas montanus is a masculinised. To standardise it, at some point soon we'll have to change montanus to montana. It hasn't been done yet because your opinion is not alone - people don't like names messed with, so we end up with messy names and standards. It's piecemeal stuff. The Americans are more irritated by it than the Europeans at the minute, so there's no strong consensus.
 
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Even the unaverage birder might be happier if things are left as they were, because it can be pretty difficult to cross-check your books...

Sometimes a name is changed because it is discovered that the bird was described first by someone else than everyone thought, or the first description was wrong (and the first name takes priority). This is a rare occurence, but the Iberian Chiffchaff was changed from Phylloscopus (collybita) brehmii to Phylloscopus (collybita) ibericus (now you can quarrel whether it is a subspecies or not, but I think the new name is easier to remember!)

More often, a scientific name is found not to explain the relationships of a bird well (mostly based on DNA work), so it should be changed to reflect the true status.
Unfortunately, there is a movement to split genera at the moment (instead of lumping them), so we get all the various tits, terns and gulls in obscure genera instead of just Parus, Sterna, Larus (which would also be OK, and a lot easier for all of us). The major problem here is that these changes are still contentious: the work is not complete yet!
The Dutch changed the cormorant genera some 10 years ago, only to change them back to Phalacrocorax when the change was found to be premature (and wrong); same thing happened with the wigeons...

There are many groups with drab species (e.g. babblers, warblers, American sparrows) where genus changes are imminent, because what you would expect to be related species are sometimes completely unrelated... but most of these are of little consequence to European birders.

Finally, recently "grammatical errors" were removed from many scientific names. The changes are slight, but annoying because you could argue that not all of these so-called errors were really errors (as I have said before, I hate "Delichon urbicum").

- I guess my different view on the tit genera proves Poecile's conclusion: "there's no strong consensus" (and I fully agree with his "messy names and standards") -
 
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Ornithology is science and changes are unavoidable.

People usually don't like changes and it recall me that in the past it was said that earth was flat.
 
I think that it has been mentioned before, but changes in scientific names have been happening forever. I recently read a paper from 1969 (Johnston: The Condor 71:120-128) which defended Mimocichla as a valid genus; the author did not seem to carry the day, as we now in the checklists see Mimocichla lumped into Turdus. Somewhere between 1920 and 1980, the predominant opinion became that the six or so red-legged thrushes in Mimocichla was only one species, Red-legged Thrush. The belief that changes in species number and names is a novelty is faulty.

Niels
 
Thanks everyone for your replies.

Especially Xenospiza and Poecile for your in depth explanations.
If I could understand the meanings of the latin names they would obviously make more sense and would probably be a lot easier to learn and retain.
As an example. Leach's Petrel Oceanodroma leucorhoa and Greenland race Wheatear Oenanthe oenanthe leucorhoa share the name leucorhoa, the only thing I can see in common with these two birds is a white rump. From this I conclude (mabey wrongly) that the (leuc) part of the name comes from leucisim and the remainder means rump or equivalent. Not much of a start I feel. So where can I learn how to translate the latin names into english and make life easier. Is there an idiots guide?
Thanks again.

Twite.
 
So where can I learn how to translate the latin names into english and make life easier. Is there an idiots guide?
Thanks again.

Twite.

To be honest, you just wing it, as that's what most people do too. The scientific names are not actually latin, they're a mad mix of latin and greek and not classical 'latin' at all. It is all code really, just like any professional jargon. Thta's why the rules are not strictly adhered to, as they are not actually a language - they're a hybrid. Yes, leuco means pale. Alba usually means white. Major means big, minor small. Cephalo- means head, troglodytes means 'cave dweller', montana means mountain (as in montane, mountain etc). But to go back to the tits, Parus doesn't actually mean anything. It is not a Latin word. It is believed to derive from an ancient greek word and mean 'little bird' but nobody's sure. These words do not all have literal English meanings. So the rules, as they are, are not necessarily logical! Remember, these names are made up by whoever discovers the bird. All they have to do is convince a panel of taxonomists that it's a decent name. They're probably not ancient Greek or Latin classicists either...

As for name changes, eg Xenospiza. I'm afraid that scientific names ('Latin names' is a misnomer and the wrong term) are not made for the convenience of birdwatchers and their bird picturebooks. They are scientific tools, for the use of scientists. English names are the names of the people. That's why Hedge Accentor has never caught on, and scientists do not talk in this 'language', they use Prunella modularis and the birders use Dunnock!
 
To be honest, you just wing it, as that's what most people do too. The scientific names are not actually latin, they're a mad mix of latin and greek and not classical 'latin' at all. It is all code really, just like any professional jargon. Thta's why the rules are not strictly adhered to, as they are not actually a language - they're a hybrid.

Thanks Poecile.

It's great to know that I am not alone in not understanding the meaning of the scientific names. I do understand their usefulness and will struggle on. You have made me feel better about the whole thing.

Thanks again.

Twite aka Carduelis flavirostris ;)

One introduction is found at http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/scinames.htm
cheers Niels

Hi Neils.

I have had a look at the site and have filed the page, I am going to spend some time studying it over the next while. I'm sure it's going to be a great help with remembering and understanding the meaning of names.

Thanks. :t:

Twite.
 
Another thing to bear in mind is that the translations are not that important, or necessarily meaningful. Take Willow Tit again - Poecile montanus = Mountain Chickadee. In that instance, the English name seems more appropriate - did you ever associate Willow Tits with mountains?! So the actual names are not important, it's the relationship BETWEEN the names, so those in the genus Poecile tells you that they're all closely related, and Poecile montanus kleinschmidti tells you that you can further subdivide the species into races. Knowing that the name tells you that the British race was first identified by someone called Kleinschmidt is trivia rather than anything else.

If scientific names were numbered instead of named (e.g. Poecile genus = 1, Marsh Tit = 1.1, Willow Tit = 1.2, British Willow Tit = 1.2.1, Scandinavian Willow Tit = 1.2.2) that still conveys all the same information on relatedness. The actual names are just whimsy and vanity.
 
Another thing to bear in mind is that the translations are not that important, or necessarily meaningful. Take Willow Tit again - Poecile montanus = Mountain Chickadee. In that instance, the English name seems more appropriate - did you ever associate Willow Tits with mountains?! So the actual names are not important, it's the relationship BETWEEN the names, so those in the genus Poecile tells you that they're all closely related, and Poecile montanus kleinschmidti tells you that you can further subdivide the species into races. Knowing that the name tells you that the British race was first identified by someone called Kleinschmidt is trivia rather than anything else.

If scientific names were numbered instead of named (e.g. Poecile genus = 1, Marsh Tit = 1.1, Willow Tit = 1.2, British Willow Tit = 1.2.1, Scandinavian Willow Tit = 1.2.2) that still conveys all the same information on relatedness. The actual names are just whimsy and vanity.

Thanks Poecile.

Your explanations are helping me gain an understanding of how things work. Just one more question, if you don't mind. Are name changes down to one or more or many organisations, is it a democracy? As an example, in Europe we have the Purple Swamp-hen in America they have Purple Gallinule, my logic says Swamp-hen should be American and Gallinule with French origins should be European. Did the Americans call dibs on Gallinule and leave us with Swamp-hen? It's hard to imagine anyone on this side of the Atlantic jumping up and down with glee when we got Swamp-hen, even Marsh-hen would have been better, or did someone else have dibs on that? Were we even told about the meeting? Thanks in advance.

Twite.

Sorry more than just one question.
 
In the UK it is the BOU who are generally accepted as the authority on naming, and their decisions (taken by a panel, on expert advice) are usually adopted by most/all of the lesser mortals. They're the 'official body' if you like. In the USA it is the American Ornithologists' Union. There is no overriding international organisation that dictates to them. But they do confer with each other and usually adopt each others' protocols. But not rigidly. Hence this masculine/feminine thing; when Black-capped Chickadee changed from Parus to Poecile, the atricapillus had to change to atricapilla to reflect the change in gender of the genus name. But the BOU isn't as bothered about this gender rule, so we haven't changed Willow Tit from P. montanus to P. montana yet.

Re Gallinule/Swamp-hen, there are attempts to try and standardise names, so we all use the same ones, or different ones for different species. The American swamps were once a French colony (New Orleans, Louisiana), so I suppose they have as much dibs on Gallinule as anyone we do.
 
Hence this masculine/feminine thing; when Black-capped Chickadee changed from Parus to Poecile, the atricapillus had to change to atricapilla to reflect the change in gender of the genus name. But the BOU isn't as bothered about this gender rule, so we haven't changed Willow Tit from P. montanus to P. montana yet.

Actually BOU does follow the masc./fem. thing, hence we now have e.g. Delichon urbicum not D. urbica. In the case of Peocile, this is a nonsense word, like Parus, and while the original author believed it had a gender, and AOU have followed this, BOU believe that there is no evidence that the word has any gender and therefore believe that maintaining the staus quo is preferable.

Simple ;-)
 
But the BOU isn't as bothered about this gender rule, so we haven't changed Willow Tit from P. montanus to P. montana yet.

The latest (4th) report of the BOURC Taxonomic Sub-committee (Ibis 2007, (149), www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1474-919X.2007.00758.x) belatedly recommends the change to P. montana.

The first 3 TSC reports stated that all recommendations were to take effect immediately with respect to the British List.

Curiously, no such statement was included in the latest TSC report, signalling a revised policy. On 9th October, Steve Dudley clarified that the latest TSC recommendations will not take effect until formally adopted by BOURC, and that BOURC will publish those items to be adopted from the recommendations in its next report (no. 36), due in January 2008. I cannot see the benefit of this 2-stage approach, whereby BOU publishes internal recommendations, which are only later reviewed for adoption or rejection. It has already caused confusion amongst birders.

P.S. Poecile, you must be pleased that your name is now more widely recognised as feminine.
 
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('Latin names' is a misnomer and the wrong term)

Well, yes and no. They are Latin... even when they are largely or wholly derived from Greek words, they are meant to follow Latin declination and grammar. It's perfectly acceptable to call scientific names 'Latin names'. Even Certhia brachydactyla!

Another thing to bear in mind is that the translations are not that important, or necessarily meaningful. Take Willow Tit again - Poecile montanus = Mountain Chickadee. In that instance, the English name seems more appropriate - did you ever associate Willow Tits with mountains?!

Depends where you are... in a british sense, no. But across its range Willow Tit is more associated with higher elevations (mountains!) than Marsh Tit. Makes perfect sense.

But the BOU isn't as bothered about this gender rule, so we haven't changed Willow Tit from P. montanus to P. montana yet

As others have pointed out... the BOU is bothered, even if I have never found a birder who is. You were officially feminised in the 4th TSC report.
 
As far as gallinule goes, there is a genus Gallinula, in which the (Common) Moorhen is classified and the Purple Gallinule may have been included. Gallinule would be the anglicization (is that a word?) of Gallinula, and was used for Florida (later Common) Gallinule (now Common Moorhen) and Purple Gallinule in the USA. I am sure the people who lived in its range 200 years ago called these birds by names other than gallinule.
 
Well, yes and no. They are Latin... even when they are largely or wholly derived from Greek words, they are meant to follow Latin declination and grammar. It's perfectly acceptable to call scientific names 'Latin names'. Even Certhia brachydactyla!

I'd disagree with that. It's wasn't acceptable during any of my education. It is so loosely based on Latin, even if it's "meant" to be, that to call it such just isn't really correct.

Depends where you are... in a british sense, no. But across its range Willow Tit is more associated with higher elevations (mountains!) than Marsh Tit. Makes perfect sense.

Willow Tit's range is so large that it covers pretty much all elevations, showing no association with any (except avoiding very high elevations - high mountains!).

As others have pointed out... the BOU is bothered, even if I have never found a birder who is. You were officially feminised in the 4th TSC report.

Apologies, I should have clarified that it's comparatively less bothered than the AOU, based on how quickly these anomalies are rectified. In the taxonomic reshufflings in the areas I'm most interested in, the Americans are much quicker to point these out than the British.
 
Hahaha, I like how Doc, referring to the genus Poecile, indicated the user Poecile.

Just along for the ride on this thread (at least so far), though I will say that as someone who took Latin most of his high school career, I am one to be thoroughly bothered by mismatching genders in scientific names - it's just unprofessional.
 
If scientific names were numbered instead of named (e.g. Poecile genus = 1, Marsh Tit = 1.1, Willow Tit = 1.2, British Willow Tit = 1.2.1, Scandinavian Willow Tit = 1.2.2) that still conveys all the same information on relatedness. The actual names are just whimsy and vanity.

I hope no-one from BOU is reading this!!! Don't even THINK that again for goodness' sake!

John
 
There is no overriding international organisation that dictates to them. But they do confer with each other and usually adopt each others' protocols. But not rigidly.

Well, this is part true, part wrong. What species make up a genus or what populations make up a species is left to the taxonomists to decide, so two taxonomic committees could indeed adopt different protocols and take different decisions regarding this point. But the technical aspects of how to apply the names once you have decided which groups deserve one (= nomenclature, this includes gender agreement) are dictated very rigidly by the International Code of Zoological Nomenclature. Neither the AOU nor the BOU would knowingly deviate from what the Code dictates. (But of course mistakes can happen.)

Actually BOU does follow the masc./fem. thing, hence we now have e.g. Delichon urbicum not D. urbica. In the case of Peocile, this is a nonsense word, like Parus, and while the original author believed it had a gender, and AOU have followed this, BOU believe that there is no evidence that the word has any gender and therefore believe that maintaining the staus quo is preferable.

Poecile derives from a classical Greek noun ('poikilê'), that was adopted by classical Latin as 'poecile'. Both the original Greek version and its Latin-adopted version are definitely feminine, so its gender makes absolutely no doubt.
In fact, it's Delichon that is the nonsense word, here: this name is an anagram (of Greek 'chelidôn' = swallow), hence not an existing word. There are (rather arbitrary) rules in the Code that determine the gender of names in such cases - in the present case, this name is deemed neuter because it ends in -on, which is the default ending of neuter nouns in Greek. Chelidôn, however, in Greek, is feminine.

Hence this masculine/feminine thing; when Black-capped Chickadee changed from Parus to Poecile, the atricapillus had to change to atricapilla to reflect the change in gender of the genus name.

The story is much more complicated than this.
The genus Parus was split by the AOU Checklist Committee in 1997 and, at that time, they did exactly the same mistake as the BOURC-TSC: Poecile atricapillus, Poecile hudsonicus, Poecile cinctus.
(http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v114n03/p0542-p0552.pdf , p547.)
In 2000, they corrected this to Poecile atricapilla, Poecile hudsonica, Poecile cincta.
(http://www.aou.org/checklist/suppl/AOU_checklist_suppl_42.pdf , p.852 - note also the explicit reference to Poecile montana there.)
However by doing this, they had in fact been a step too far - only adjectival Latin or latinised species names must agree in gender with the genus name, and atricapillus (meaning 'black head', not 'black-headed') is actually not adjectival. So, in 2003, they had to change this name back again to Poecile atricapillus.
(http://www.aou.org/checklist/suppl/AOU_checklist_suppl_44.pdf , p.928.)

Corrections are not necessarily much faster on the other side of the pond...

If scientific names were numbered instead of named (e.g. Poecile genus = 1, Marsh Tit = 1.1, Willow Tit = 1.2, British Willow Tit = 1.2.1, Scandinavian Willow Tit = 1.2.2) that still conveys all the same information on relatedness.

...Except that Poecile would definitely NOT be genus 1, but instead something like genus 3225 - a number that would presumably change every time you split or lump any other group appearing before it in the sequence... Same problem for the species: 3225.1, in a system recognising chickadees as distinct from other tits would have to be something like 3220.33 in a system grouping all the tits together...

This would perhaps convey relationships, but retrieving information with such a system would be nearly impossible.

Willow Tit's range is so large that it covers pretty much all elevations, showing no association with any (except avoiding very high elevations - high mountains!).

The difference does not apply 'across the range' of the species, actually, but only in its southernmost populations. In Europe, this concerns the montanus subspecies group, AKA 'Alpine Tit', which is therefore indeed aptly named. This group is found in the Alps, Carpathians, Appenines, Rhodopes, etc...; just compare the ranges of Willow and Marsh Tits in these regions.
 
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