AX Visio: is it really as bad as some reviewers claim?? (4 Viewers)

[Hermann]

I tried to be fair: the ax is on auto, so I left the G9 to fend for itself. But I'm still impressed with the ax result: it is for documentation, not photo contests😄
The power of the G9 with the 100-400mm is quite lovely!

Yes, the Visio is for documentation. And the Visio is of course a lot lighter than a binocular+camera+lens. That's what makes it attractive.

Edit: the G9 fully equipped plus the AX is till way less than a Canon F4 600 mm...(price has been mentioned as a factor earlier)

Too right. The big white (or, in the case of Nikon, black) lenses are not only very expensive but also bulky and heavy. I certainly wouldn't want to carry an f4/600 in the field. And certainly not in the fjells ...

The Visio is more for people who have been struggling with digiscoping difficulties forever like me and want an easy-to -carry straightforward combination of good binocular optics with a documentation feature that‘s at least acceptable. But, of course a camera with more FL and better sensor would be welcome.

Sure, but more focal length and a bigger sensor would make the Visio bigger and heavier. It's a compromise. And everyone must decide for themselves whether that compromise works for them. I myself will continue to carry a camera when necessary (or when it makes sense) for the time being.

By the way: in the birding community, other features of the Visio beside bird ID seem almost never discussed. I was recently told by an army instructor in artillery that he had been waiting forever for something like the new „share-discoveries“ function with the compass and inclinometer which makes it much easier to teach his class target identification in mountain terrain.
I could imagine hunters and also birders who observe in groups might find these features useful as well.

They may well be useful. I'd need to try a Visio in the field to decide whether they are worth it.

Hermann

 

[Dyrlege]

And you should see how badly the Visio camera fares against really good cameras like e.g. my Leica Q2 (which cost about the same as the Visio).

So don‘t count on the Visio if you are an avid wildlife or landscape photographer looking for a good camera.
The Visio is more for people who have been struggling with digiscoping difficulties forever like me and want an easy-to -carry straightforward combination of good binocular optics with a documentation feature that‘s at least acceptable. But, of course a camera with more FL and better sensor would be welcome.

By the way: in the birding community, other features of the Visio beside bird ID seem almost never discussed. I was recently told by an army instructor in artillery that he had been waiting forever for something like the new „share-discoveries“ function with the compass and inclinometer which makes it much easier to teach his class target identification in mountain terrain.
I could imagine hunters and also birders who observe in groups might find these features useful as well.

Canip

Observation and documentation, not least imagesharing: imagine an artillery observer sharing targets for ID or for effect assessment, or just snapping a picture of a possible target for evaluation (you dont't use laser range finders, they tend to provoke a response) etc. The military is very keen on observe and document. As is the press.
Per

 

[tenex]

I wonder whether all that can be happening on your phone; perhaps some of the hard work occurs in the cloud instead, and that's what's missing in Visio. Canip, if you disable its network connection, does the Merlin phone app still outperform Visio on the same photos?

This question may have got lost. I'm wondering whether the AI power that improves detection of birds in poor photos when using the Merlin app on a phone is actually in the cloud, which Visio itself has no access to, limiting its success.

 

[Canip]

Will have to try out when back home (currently traveling for a few days).

 

[Canip]

This question may have got lost. I'm wondering whether the AI power that improves detection of birds in poor photos when using the Merlin app on a phone is actually in the cloud, which Visio itself has no access to, limiting its success.

As far as I can tell, when using the Merlin app with the smartphone in flight mode the results are the same as when network connection is active.

 

[Canip]

Some more samples taken with the (quote from another post) "expensive proof of concept/protoype that will either be a one off or be technologically obsolete in a year or two (with zero resale value in either case)" (unquote) - some members here are really fast with their opinions

Pictures taken through thick underwood and branches are a real challenge for the Visio, but it did overall well in identifying birds even when they were not that well visible or partially covered by foreground items. The following will hopefully come in the right order as listed (if not, it will be a great identification exercise "which is which" for everybody)

• Spotted Woodpecker at 38 m (laser measured)
• Great Tit at ca. 15 m
• Collared Dove at 52 m (laser measured)
• Blue Tit at ca. 15 m
• Blue Tit at ca. 15 m
• Cormorant at ca 60 m
• Eurasian Teal at ca 30 m
• Tufted Duck at ca 40 m
• Mallards at ca 30 m

 

[Dyrlege]

Nah! Don't 'elp naught. Just a piece of expensive 'tronics. 🥳🎉😂

Lovely. And the photo quality is very good.
The tufted duck is at the same distance (+/-) as one I saw some days ago (ax was not in the car), and I caught on my mobile (Experia IV, supposed to be a good Zeiss camera with physical Tele) and used to provoke Merlin with. Merlin needed convincing!
Well done, you and the AX!
Per

 

[tenex]

As far as I can tell, when using the Merlin app with the smartphone in flight mode the results are the same as when network connection is active.

Thanks. As to why AX itself performs worse than the app on the same photos then, I'll return to the previous idea of some limitation due to processing speed. The four-segment display also suggests a need to entertain and reassure the user that something is happening. How long does the process take to complete?

 

[Canip]

How long does the process take to complete?

The „process“ means:

• observing bird, pressing button halfway to start ID, waiting for display segments to become bold: if bird is well visible (not partially hidden by foreground branches etc) and not too far away for the Visio, from about 1.5 to 5 secs** (if bird is out of reach, segments will not become bold, however long you press the button)
• then pressing the button fully, waiting for bird name to appear in the display: 1 - 2 secs** (same for result „no identifiable bird“)

**Edit: that‘s why you may use the photo app of the Visio instead of the bird ID app if the bird is likely to disappear quickly

 

[LUCCHINI1968]

Quando si identifica AX VISIO memorizza la posizione GPS, la specie identificata e una foto senza ingrandimenti da utilizzare come promemoria. Per ottenere una foto a circa 5/6 ingrandimenti e a una definizione discreta bisogna utilizzare AX VISIO in modalità foto. Lo trovo uno strumento innovativo adatto a principianti che vogliono imparare ad identificare e magari fare qualche discreta fotografia, un amante della fotografia che voglia delle ottime foto è meglio che utilizzi la sua attrezzatura fotografica, un esperto birdwatcher è molto meglio che utilizzi la propria esperienza per identificare al meglio e correttamente una specie. Otticamente lo trovo ottimo, il fatto di avere solo 6° di campo è dovuto al fatto, che avendo fatto solo un 10x, di non dover dare troppo affaticamento dovuto al tremolio ( meno visione periferica). Questo ovviamente è il mio modesto parere.

Mod edit: Google Translate says...
When identifying, AX VISIO stores the GPS position, the identified species and a non-enlarged photo to use as a reminder. To obtain a photo at approximately 5/6 magnification and a decent definition you need to use AX VISIO in photo mode. I find it an innovative tool suitable for beginners who want to learn to identify and perhaps take some decent photographs, a photography lover who wants excellent photos is better off using his photographic equipment, an expert birdwatcher is much better off using his experience to best and correctly identify a species. Optically I find it excellent, the fact of having only 6° of field is due to the fact that, having only done a 10x, I don't have to give too much fatigue due to the shaking (less peripheral vision). This is obviously my humble opinion.

 

[Georgecyclist]

You mean a photo with smartphone taken through the Visio eyepiece compared with a photo of the Visio camera?

Will do.

But a big CAVEAT, upon further reflection about my rash statement „The camera does not “see” things as large as you see them in the binocular“:

In fact, I don‘t really know that. All I know is that the stored photos show things smaller than they appear in the binocular. I don‘t know whether the camera uses a larger image for ID purposes. Would have to be explored.

The camera in the Visio takes images at 5 magnifications, half that of the binoculars. This is done to minimize image blurring.

 

[Canip]

AX Visio: is it really as bad as some reviewers claim??

Isn’t the human brain an exceptionally wonderful device? Imagine: many adults can sometimes identify a bird even if it is hidden behind branches so that only a small part of the bird’s body is well visible. Trying to mimic that with electronic algorithms is extremely demanding, as any...

www.birdforum.net

 

[Montereyman]

The review is worthless as the bird size is much too small to be identified. I use Nikon Z9 cameras that sell for $5,500 with their $2500 100-400mm zoom lens to lock focus using subject detection to zero in on the subject's eyes. This works much of the time but if the subject's head only fills 10% of the frame the camera does not have enough data to function properly.

I have been in situations where I needed the subject magnification at a 400mm zoom setting to have the camera identify that the subject was a bird and to focus on the eyes and then I could zoom back out for the framing I wanted.

Not any different than trying to use a low powered opera glass to identify something and failing when with a 12x scope it would not be a problem.

For birds at a distance of 20-30 feet a 200mm focal length is adequate and I am in the same situation if using 8x binoculars where at greater distances I tend to use Merlin sound ID to determine the species that I am observing.

The technology is going to become increasingly sophisticated and Leica appears to have a head start over other companies. It is a little surprising as the companies with the best subject recognition tech in cameras are Nikon and Sony followed by Canon.

 

[Jason Bugay Reyes]

I do think this, and not the built-in ID, is what more people will ultimately want.

Still a useful function for those field researchers in my place and for non-birders, this is a very handy tool as and eye opener for them to get to know about birds

 

[fazalmajid]

And you should see how badly the Visio camera fares against really good cameras like e.g. my Leica Q2 (which cost about the same as the Visio).

Do you digiscope with your Q2?

 

[Canip]

Do you digiscope with your Q2?

I don't.

jackjack knows how to digiscope, I fail miserably 😞

The Q2 is fabulous for landscape and widefield night photos (see first pic), so I use it for that.

For birding, my Nikon Coolpix 1000 with its huge zoom serves me well (second pic), for astro, a freshly acquired Seestar S50 is likely to keep me busy in the future.