Fea's and Zino's Petrels (3 Viewers)

[Bonsaibirder]

Many sightings of Pterodroma petrels in UK waters are now being reported as Fea's Petrels. I don't know if this is just to avoid using the clumsy Fea's/Zino's wording or if people are using the statistical argument that Zino's is extremely unlikely to occur due to it's small population in order to get a tick.

Having just been to Madeira I was interested in the relative populations of these species. It seems there are approximately 80 pairs of Zino's Petrels in Madeira and according to the Birdlife website the population of Fea's Petrel is at least 1200 pairs.

So potentially as many as 1 in 15 of these Pterodroma petrels (which are indistinguishable in the field without very good views) are Zino's. I don't know the exact number of these birds that have been claimed in the UK but it is very clear to me that statistically speaking Zino's Petrel could quite easily have occurred in the last few years.

Cheers,

 

[Mark Newsome]

Only 3 records have been accepted as definite Fea's so far, with the remaining 60+ accepted records being of Fea's/Zino's. Add to this, there are no doubt a good few claims which have been rejected/never made it BBRC.
Interestingly, there's quite a difference in breeding times between the two species. Zino's lay in April-May and are present on the mountain top colony between April and late August. Fea's lay mid-July to early August with the chicks fledging in December (as per Birding Madeira website). Are the Fea's in UK (which peak in late August/early September) failed breeders, as they obviously can't relate post breeding/juvenile dispersal birds? Not sure what the pattern is off NE USA. All interesting stuff!

 

[Bonsaibirder]

So there may have been up to 4 Zino's already!

Only 3 records have been accepted as definite Fea's so far, with the remaining 60+ accepted records being of Fea's/Zino's. Add to this, there are no doubt a good few claims which have been rejected/never made it BBRC.
Interestingly, there's quite a difference in breeding times between the two species. Zino's lay in April-May and are present on the mountain top colony between April and late August. Fea's lay mid-July to early August with the chicks fledging in December (as per Birding Madeira website). Are the Fea's in UK (which peak in late August/early September) failed breeders, as they obviously can't relate post breeding/juvenile dispersal birds? Not sure what the pattern is off NE USA. All interesting stuff!

 

[Lawts]

Does Soft-plumaged come into the equation as well?

 

[Mark Newsome]

Does Soft-plumaged come into the equation as well?

I've not heard of any claims of Soft-plumaged (mollis), but it wouldn't be too surprising if the odd one did make it north of the equator. As most observers must now be tuned in to what they should be looking for should any Fea's-type petrel fly past, surely the breast band would ring immediate alarm bells? It'd be a good one to be photographed on a future Scilly pelagic.

 

[Bonsaibirder]

If Soft-plumaged is a possible vagrant to the UK/Ireland then that changes the picture, since the world population is ~60,000 . I don't know anything about soft-plumaged and how likely it would be to turn up - are there any northern hemisphere records?

Apparently (I've never seen one) they have a complete breast-band and less dark on the underwing compared to Fea's.

I wonder how many UK/Ireland observations are close enough to judge the exact extent of the breast band. The dark underwing is visible from long distance and I imagine would be a feature of most Fea's/Zino's descriptions.

When I saw Fea's/Zino's in Madeira recently the dark underwing was very obvious until it was in strong light and on those occasions it didn't look very dark at all.

But perhaps they are not that difficult to tell apart after all ...
http://www.surfbirds.com/Features/POVpetrels.html

Cheers,

Does Soft-plumaged come into the equation as well?

 

[Mark Newsome]

Soft-plumaged has made it fairly close to the UK. There's a remarkable record for Israel, off Eilat North Beach on 25 March 1997. Even more amazing is the record of one dead on the shores of the Dead Sea on 8 Feb '63, but I'm not sure whether this was confirmed as defintely mollis. Presumably it had come up the Red Sea and was trying to go overland to the Med. (details from Israel Birding website).
My view is that seabirds are amongst the most travelled birds in the world, no-one has a true grasp of the mileage and range covered and it's been regularly proved that amazing birds make it to western European waters (eg several pterodroma species, murrelets, Aleutian Tern etc). Pretty well anything is possible.

 

[Bonsaibirder]

Exactly, so nothing can be ruled out or in for sure by probability, especially when it comes to seabirds. So Fea's shouldn't really be ticked on probability either here or in Madeira!

Now what about Chimney Swifts..?

My view is that seabirds are amongst the most travelled birds in the world, no-one has a true grasp of the mileage and range covered and it's been regularly proved that amazing birds make it to western European waters (eg several pterodroma species, murrelets, Aleutian Tern etc). Pretty well anything is possible.

 

[Edward woodwood]

Soft-plumaged has made it fairly close to the UK. There's a remarkable record for Israel, off Eilat North Beach on 25 March 1997. Even more amazing is the record of one dead on the shores of the Dead Sea on 8 Feb '63, but I'm not sure whether this was confirmed as defintely mollis. Presumably it had come up the Red Sea and was trying to go overland to the Med. (details from Israel Birding website).
My view is that seabirds are amongst the most travelled birds in the world, no-one has a true grasp of the mileage and range covered and it's been regularly proved that amazing birds make it to western European waters (eg several pterodroma species, murrelets, Aleutian Tern etc). Pretty well anything is possible.

Hi Mark

the Israel record is probably erroneous and more likely relates to feae. I am sure there is something about this in the excellent BB article of a couple of years ago

mollis are separable in the field from feae resonably easily, as opposed to feae and maderia (Zino's)

 

[jurek]

Complete lamer as me can only guess that immature Feas wander widely and many birds are non-breeders.

BTW, Yankee's had more rare seabirds on their side of Atlantic, surely there are many nice species waiting to be discovered in WP. Herald Petrel, for a start.

 

[lewis20126]

http://www.israbirding.com/irdc/bulletins/bulletin_2.2/

The Israel bird does seem to have been a mollis. I don't think the other two taxa have (yet) been recorded from outside the North Atlantic but could be wrong. Where is Pterodroma when you need him....

 

[lewis20126]

http://www.israbirding.com/irdc/bulletins/bulletin_2.2/

The Israel bird does seem to have been a mollis. I don't think the other two taxa have (yet) been recorded from outside the North Atlantic but could be wrong. Where is Pterodroma when you need him....

Also in Sandgouse 21.1 p49 as Fea's. The incomplete breast band seems a bit odd but this seems to be explained by HS in the paper

a

 

[Glen Tepke]

Not sure what the pattern is off NE USA.

I am not aware of any records off the northeast US, but there are many reports of Fea's from pelagic trips off North Carolina (which is considered to be in the southeast). Feas is rare but regular there from May to July. I don't have any info on the ages of the birds seen. Go to patteson.com and click on Image Gallery and then Petrels & Shearwaters for several photos.

The American Birding Association Checklist still lists Fea's/Zino's because of the ID question, but I don't think there have been any reports of Zino's in US waters.

Glen

 

[Farnboro John]

Most of those who insist on actual detail instead of statistics will have to remove Cory's Shearwater from their British lists.....and how many fairly distant Balearics were really seen well enough?

Yes, by going with the obvious it is possible someone will put Fea's Petrel on their British List when they actually saw a Zino's (be nice to have both, wouldn't it?) but its not going to keep me awake at nights.

John

 

[Mark Newsome]

I am not aware of any records off the northeast US, but there are many reports of Fea's from pelagic trips off North Carolina (which is considered to be in the southeast)...

Sorry Glen, my fault. My brief grasp at US geography wasn't as good as I would have liked!

If the Israel bird was feae, then that's just as amazing. Presumably it'd come through the Med? I'll dig out the BB paper tonight and have a read.

 

[Lawts]

Most of those who insist on actual detail instead of statistics will have to remove Cory's Shearwater from their British lists.....and how many fairly distant Balearics were really seen well enough?

Yes, by going with the obvious it is possible someone will put Fea's Petrel on their British List when they actually saw a Zino's (be nice to have both, wouldn't it?) but its not going to keep me awake at nights.

John

I can't comment on Cory's because I haven't seen one, although I suspect many birders have it on their lists from pelagic trips in any event. As for Balearic most I've seen tend to hug the coast, and are usually nearer than the Manx Shearwaters and show very well.

I think these are different from the Fea's/Zino's problem. I do think these birds should be recorded as Fea's/Zino's.

 

[Lawts]

Macaronesian Shearwater

On a similar note why do the info. services insist on using Little Shearwater as a title, when our birds are Macaronesian Shearwaters?

 

[bitterntwisted]

If the Israel bird was feae, then that's just as amazing. Presumably it'd come through the Med? I'll dig out the BB paper tonight and have a read.

It's very odd indeed, Mark. A bird beached in Eilat would surely be most likely to have flown up the Red Sea from the Indian Ocean. There's over 100 miles of mountainous desert between the Med and Eilat. Mollis breeds in Mozambique, according to IUCN. The Sandgrouse article isn't available online, is it?

Graham

 

[Mark Newsome]

On a similar note why do the info. services insist on using Little Shearwater as a title, when our birds are Macaronesian Shearwaters?

Bit of an odd one really. The BOU use Macaronesian Shearwater, BB use North Atlantic Little Shearwater. The taxon known as Little Shearwater is the form off SE Australia according to the new Shearwaters book (but not sure how widely accepted their taxonomic views on small shearwaters are). The whole taxonomy of the group is up in the air at the moment but you'd think the bird info services would follow one of established British organizations, rather than sticking to the old name (even though many birders still talk of Little Shearwaters - old habits die hard).

 

[Farnboro John]

I can't comment on Cory's because I haven't seen one, although I suspect many birders have it on their lists from pelagic trips in any event. As for Balearic most I've seen tend to hug the coast, and are usually nearer than the Manx Shearwaters and show very well.

I think these are different from the Fea's/Zino's problem. I do think these birds should be recorded as Fea's/Zino's.

The point I was making is that most Cory's seen from land are not seen well enough to exclude Scopoli's, but I can't see people putting "400 Cory's/Scopoli's past Porthgwarra" onto RBA. Or worrying about the fact that they haven't.

John