Bresser Everest (ED) 8x42 (1 Viewer)

[[email protected]]

You start, I've got the first post ready...if I see the thread in time . Lots of posters have posted Dennis' contradictions. Has about as much effect as throwing a duck into a pond.

He is sort of an "any publicity is good publicity" kind of guy and publicity seems to be his reason for living.

I also think you were right when you questioned the eye cup as his looking for a reason to throw the Everest under the bus. I would not doubt he pried the eye cup off.

Yes, and the diopter was turned with a pair of pliers until it wouldn't work. Are you guys getting paid by Bresser or what? The eyecup attachments on the Bresser's is poor engineering and lack of QC. Too bad the optics are great.

 

[mooreorless]

Dennis you are just pissed because Frank's Bresser thread has 5 star rating and your "wow" one is just 3 star and is now down to 15th spot and ready to go onto the next page even with way over 350 posts by you on that thread.

 

[Steve C]

People should buy what they can afford and have fun. I've been frowned upon while using my SE as my Leica or Swarovski sat in my daypack so please don't accuse me of snobbery because it just ain't so. I started birding with a $50 bin and loved it...right up to the point where I looked through offerings from Leica and Swarovski. Some downplay alphas while sitting on a dozen or more bins, preferring quantity to quality (my subjective analysis of course). Others buy one alpha and use it for twenty years. My advice is save your pennies, buy the very best you can afford and go outside. That's where the birds are.

PS
Inexpensive is great…just make sure it isn't cheap.

To be clear, I did not accuse you of snobbery. Look at the post and you will find the word absent. You brought it up, and the reason might be interesting.

I don't think you are a snob...exactly. You surely do come across as arrogant, but maybe that's just me. Not worth having an argument over.

Having said that, we do find ourselves in agreement on most of your total quoted post. Particularly your last line...

Inexpensive is great…just make sure it isn't cheap.

So mostly we are in agreement and maybe that's not all bad .

dennis,

You will remain forever clueless.

 

[[email protected]]

Dennis you are just pissed because Frank's Bresser thread has 5 star rating and your "wow" one is just 3 star and is now down to 15th spot and ready to go onto the next page even with way over 350 posts by you on that thread.

At over 56,000 reads it is still the record holder for the longest thread besides the Bargain Binocular thread. Let's see you match it. 56,000. That's 56,000 reads. 56 thousand!

 

[[email protected]]

Dennis you are just pissed because Frank's Bresser thread has 5 star rating and your "wow" one is just 3 star and is now down to 15th spot and ready to go onto the next page even with way over 350 posts by you on that thread.

I am not worried. One more QC issue and the Bresser's will be down the tube. HaHa.

 

[[email protected]]

Absolutely there is a baseline, nobody would accept those faults that you list -- I think this is a strawman argument, and moreover that a lot of the concerns about "China bins" are greatly exaggerated (not that Dennis exaggerating is a big shock to anyone). The vast majority of these bins "work effectively" in the sense that they have excellent optics, reasonable build quality, and don't fall apart in your hands. I have experimented with many "value bins" and NONE of them have had collimation issues or any major flaw that prevented them from being usable in the field.

There is a difference between saying, "one should not expect a $200 bin to work effectively" and accepting some minor faults given the price point, recognizing that you are getting "value" in the sense of terrific optics despite occasional QC issues. Nobody would forgive a basic lack of function in the optical train (e.g. poor collimation causing a double image). Now what is minor to some is major to others of course, but the "fundamentals" of properly functioning optics is clearly the baseline.

Go onto any site with reviews -- Eagle Optics, Amazon, OpticsPlanet, Zen-Ray.com, etc. You will scores of 5-star reviews with people thrilled at the quality they were able to get at a fraction of the price of the "alphas". You can't hand-wave it all away like Dennis does by claiming that none of these people "no" (sic) anything about binoculars. The internet universe is a harsh place for product reviews, and if these things were falling apart left and right you would hear about it.

Sure you get some funny stuff due to lesser QC... Zen-Ray seems to have an issue making a focus knob without some slack / play. Sometimes the eyecup rotation mechanism won't be as robust as on a more expensive bin. Maybe the glue comes unstuck on the rubber eyecup and it separates from the metal. Maybe there's a malfunctioning diopter. All of these things I would consider "minor" considering the price point and that they either don't impact basic function, or if they do (like a diopter mechanism flaw), the majority of these manufacturers will happily fix the issues under warranty.

And let's not pretend that alphas are immune to QC issues that will raise the hackles of the obsessives on this site. What about diopter issues on the Nikon EDG? Or rough focusing on Swaro EL's?

" Accepting some minor faults given the price point"

Sorry but the eyecup falling off and the diopter failing to work after two weeks are not minor faults. These are serious QC issues. And that's only after 6 people have them! 6! Just wait till 100 people have had them for a awhile. We will see how many problems crop up. 2 out of 6. Let's see that's a 33% failure rate. Not too good! I am going to start my own value binocular thread and my choices will hang together.

 

[NDhunter]

" Accepting some minor faults given the price point"

Sorry but the eyecup falling off and the diopter failing to work after two weeks are not minor faults. These are serious QC issues. And that's only after 6 people have them! 6! Just wait till 100 people have had them for a awhile. We will see how many problems crop up. 2 out of 6. Let's see that's a 33% failure rate. Not too good! I am going to start my own value binocular thread and my choices will hang together.

Dennis:

That's enough. This is how many see you.

Jerry

 

[mooreorless]

At over 56,000 reads it is still the record holder for the longest thread besides the Bargain Binocular thread. Let's see you match it. 56,000. That's 56,000 reads. 56 thousand!

Dennis I noticed you replied to your wow thread, that is 351 replies and brings it back up, but still third to Frank's threads. I think your post count on that thread is closer to 950 out of 1313 replies, I just got tired of counting. Thanks for replying twice to my post that I would of probably deleted.

 

[Pileatus]

Why is there so much angst over inanimate objects and so much eagerness to attack individuals, veiled or otherwise?

Dennis has as much right to speak as anyone and much of what he says is dead on. Quality control is the biggest problem one will encounter with Chinese bins. Sample variation is the Internet consumer's greatest risk and the one topic that's consistently ignored when Chinese bins are mentioned. Caveat Emptor says it all.

I remember a past craze concerning a particular Chinese-made brand. I even liked one of the models. Then, the same design (style, body, specs, etc.) showed up under different labels and the blush was off that rose. The multitude of rebadged Chinese optics is mind boggling and the poor consumer is left in a quandry.

If you really want excellent and inexpensive optics start separating the wheat from the chaff. Off the truck, out of the box, out the window and on to the Net in a few hours IS NOT an evaluation worthy of consideration. When stuff falls apart after a few hours use tell people not to buy it under any circumstances. Suggesting a glue-repair or the abandonment of eyecups altogether is absurd. When someone goes through multiple samples to find one they can praise my head explodes. Excusing or downplaying obvious faults only encourages the belief that ulterior motives are at work. But, hey, what do I know.

 

[[email protected]]

Why is there so much angst over inanimate objects and so much eagerness to attack individuals, veiled or otherwise?

Dennis has as much right to speak as anyone and much of what he says is dead on. Quality control is the biggest problem one will encounter with Chinese bins. Sample variation is the Internet consumer's greatest risk and the one topic that's consistently ignored when Chinese bins are mentioned. Caveat Emptor says it all.

I remember a past craze concerning a particular Chinese-made brand. I even liked one of the models. Then, the same design (style, body, specs, etc.) showed up under different labels and the blush was off that rose. The multitude of rebadged Chinese optics is mind boggling and the poor consumer is left in a quandry.

If you really want excellent and inexpensive optics start separating the wheat from the chaff. Off the truck, out of the box, out the window and on to the Net in a few hours IS NOT an evaluation worthy of consideration. When stuff falls apart after a few hours use tell people not to buy it under any circumstances. Suggesting a glue-repair or the abandonment of eyecups altogether is absurd. When someone goes through multiple samples to find one they can praise my head explodes. Excusing or downplaying obvious faults only encourages the belief that ulterior motives are at work. But, hey, what do I know.

Exactly. They probably send Frank the pick of the litter to test then the rest of the Chinese binoculars get the usual QC inspection which is none. I am sorry but I don't think you have to superglue a new binocular and then you are "Good to Go". Maybe I am missing something. Then people attack me like I am some kind bringer of bad news. They should be grateful that somebody on here is honest enough to reveal the problems a binocular may have before they go out and waste their money on it.

 

[brownpelican1]

"Why is there so much angst over inanimate objects and so much eagerness to attack individuals, veiled or otherwise?" Pileatus

EXACTLY!! Why are you guys (Dennis & Pileatus) in such a lather about a few bino nuts who enjoy rummaging through the binocular bargain bin? We do so with eyes wide open to the possible (probable?) QC issues inherent in bargain bins. When the aforementioned QC issues crop up they are reported and discussed. Nothing is hidden. No one is being led astray. Certainly not you Dennis or you Pileatus. Your both to savvy to think you can get alpha quality at a bargain price.
On the other hand, I don't mind a simple glue repair or a return for repair or replacement. It's part of the game for me and it's kinda' fun. You guys obviously don't feel that way and that's OK.
But I gotta' ask this question. If you don't care for the risks inherent in bargain bins then why on earth do you keep buying them?? Why keep commenting on them??

After all, these are just toys. You play with your alphas and leave me to choose my own toys. I don't need you to save me. I'm doing fine. Stop peeing on my parade!

 

[eitanaltman]

Seriously. I'll say it again -- nobody is forcing you to participate in this thread. Why do you waste so much time and energy pooping on the parade? Dennis I understand, he's just like an attention starved child so will continue to post everywhere just to hear himself talk, but I don't understand why Pileatus is wasting so much breath here.

 

[Steve C]

Why is there so much angst over inanimate objects and so much eagerness to attack individuals, veiled or otherwise?

Dennis has as much right to speak as anyone and much of what he says is dead on. Quality control is the biggest problem one will encounter with Chinese bins. Sample variation is the Internet consumer's greatest risk and the one topic that's consistently ignored when Chinese bins are mentioned. Caveat Emptor says it all.

The angst you reference seems to me to be yours. WHENEVEVER any discussion about a moderate price glass shows up you are right there with some means to save up spare change, stay away from the coffee shop, ditch the bowling league, or some other clever scheme, and go buy an alpha. You seem mortally offended about discussions of anything else.

As for dennis and his right to speak. I recently used a bigger hammer on him on this issue that I needed to. But simply because we might grant his right to expression, that does NOT imply an equal right for the rest of us to accept the many expressions of dennis. So once again dad, your number one son gets into the jam all by himself. You are consistent in your stance on what sort of a binocular one should use and why you think that. Fine by me. Dennis, on the other hand, will shock the forum if he ever gets anything other than inconsistency built into his opinions. He's all over the place,and has thrown everything he's ever had under the bus. Lately he has more or less painted himself into a corner by (for his standards anyway) by seeming to settle on three porros. The Habicht (which he initially threw under the bus), the SE, which he once abandoned because it was not waterproof...or some such, and the EII...which he likely threw under the bus at some point too... but I'm not wasting time looking for the specifics.

So he seems now to have seized upon the strategy based on buying a new series of less expensive binoculars. First he finds (or creates) a loose eye cup on the Everest. Bam...he's now a Chinese QC guru! Be prepared for a litany of faults with lesser price glass.

He recently bought a Leupold Hawthorne. Care to bet how long he will accept a somewhat narrow 7X FOV? So what will come after that? He will eventually complete that circle back to alpha roofs, which he will then abandon his porros for...based on whatever reason, and dennis is off to being dennis.

In the process he will draw some fire. That is the price he pays for his freedom of expression, and for the freedom to be wildly inconsistent.

 

[FrankD]

Ya know I read the first of the last series of comments on my phone last night while out to dinner with the future-Mrs. I had a strong inclination to reply but thought it would be a good idea not to as one's first reaction isn't always the best. I also thought the significant other may get upset as she thinks I spend too much time on my hobbies so as it is.

To keep this fairly simple.....

John,

If you feel I am working for all of the companies of the optics that I do reviews on or that I get some type of "kick back" then just come right out and say it. Don't beat around the bush.

I will continue to take advantage of every opportunity I am given either through my limited financial resources or through offers from various manufacturers and/or retailers to try out and review as many bins as I can....regardless of their country of origin because that is what I love doing.

If you aren't happy with that fact then tough noogies.

Dennis,

In all honesty I don't know what to say to you. I am sure by page 65 of this thread a free-spinning rubber exterior to the eyepiece will turn into the entire barrel falling off but then, hey, I am often wrong.

You gentlemen can continue doing your own thing and I will continue to do mine. That is the beauty of places like this. We are all entitled to our opinions and the freedom to share them on this forum.

 

[etudiant]

It seems to me that this is a real life dialogue.
Some contributors are more emphatic, some more reserved, all are equally human and prone to make mistakes.
I'd be happy to share some beers with any of the regulars on this forum.
They all have their prejudices, but that does not make them less valuable as guides to the world of binoculars. I learn from them every day and hope they all continue to contribute.

 

[FrankD]

John,

If I misinterpreted your intentions then you have my apologies. Vague comments about always receiving cherries and ulterior motives can easily be misconstrued. I speak plainly and would suggest doing the same. Latin, though dead, has its place. After a Bachelors, a Masters and a Doctorate equivalent I still need to occassionally look up some of your terms.

 

[FrankD]

Etudiant,

I am tipping a Miller Lite to you as I speak.

 

[stereotruckdriver]

Etudiant,

I am tipping a Miller Lite to you as I speak.

:t:

 

[etudiant]

Etudiant,

I am tipping a Miller Lite to you as I speak.

Reciprocating with a Harpoon Rye IPA.

(As I get older, stronger flavors are getting the nod.)

 

[FrankD]

IPA? Oh my, sounds hoppy. Have tried similar but haven't developed a taste for it yet. One of my future step-sons works at a beverage distributor. He brings home a variety of beverages. Many micro-brews. I think he would fully appreciate what you are partaking in.

I, on the other hand, am satisfied with a much simpler blend.

Hmm, this sounds much like my recent discussion of optics.