Woodpecker, Bulgaria (1 Viewer)

[Deb Burhinus]

Happy to be proved wrong but imo the face pattern is fine. The bill looks long because the nasal feathers are worn - males have noticeably longer and heavier bills than females:

https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/212946631
and here

https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/204844491

I don’t see the malar stripe reaching the bill base (slightly dark/ghosting of a stripe can be seen in MSW too:

https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/187593681

but never as pronounced as Syrian

https://www.waldwissen.net/en/did-you-already-know/syrian-woodpecker-in-germany


- the 3 large white rounded spots visible (tips to the greater coverts) point to MSW Syrians have less white on the wing

https://www.flickr.com/photos/126501038@N08/49407552511

 

[Deb Burhinus]

oops xposted with Andrew and Joern!

 

[RafaelMatias]

I think we went through this exact discussion some years ago...

 

[Birders Reports]

Happy to be proved wrong but imo the face pattern is fine. The bill looks long because the nasal feathers are worn - males have noticeably longer and heavier bills than females:

but never as pronounced as Syrian

https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/199508081

I think, this is WBW.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

Is anyone not considering sexually dimorphic differences in bill size in Dendrocopus woodpeckers? (With the exception of Lesser Spotted). Males have noticeably longer deeper bills than females and are slightly stockier - I think this is perhaps being underestimated here.

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

Thats funny now ...

Birders reports , in the link you give
I get a photo of a whitebacked , but the German caption says middle spotted

(EDIT: sorry-it was your link, Deb?)

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

Is anyone not considering sexually dimorphic differences in bill size in Dendrocopus woodpeckers? (With the exception of Lesser Spotted). Males have noticeably longer deeper bills than females and are slightly stockier - I think this is perhaps being underestimated here.

agree

 

[Deb Burhinus]

I think, this is WBW.

Yes not only wrongly labelled but the wrong link! Sorry, I will remove it!

 

[Deb Burhinus]

Thats funny now ...

Birders reports , in the link you give
I get a photo of a whitebacked , but the German caption says middle spotted

(EDIT: sorry-it was your link, Deb?)

Amended - this thread is moving fast! I’m on a small tablet and typing with one finger and have too many windows open! Anyway the naysayers have cleared the room

 

[KenM]

It’s a very interesting image, unless there is great variation (cosmetically) with WBW which imo structurally fits the bill my other thought is a possible hybrid.
As I understand it GSWxWBW can occur where their ranges overlap, although the heavy streaking to the belly looks odd for either species?

Cheers

 

[Deb Burhinus]

Posting some more links re the breast streaking and size (I think the questions regarding the bill have been addressed as has the malar smudging) BTW MSW are ‘negligibly smaller’ than GSW - male MSW are about the same size ( <-) as female GSW or female Syrian.

Streaking in Middle Spotted Woodpecker can be fine -> heavy

https://www.oiseaux.net/photos/jules.fouarge/middle.spotted.woodpecker.3.html

and MSW (males) can look quite bulky

https://www.oiseaux.net/photos/vincent.palomares/middle.spotted.woodpecker.1.html

I really cannot see any basis for venturing sideways down the hybrid route unless there’s there’s no other path - this looks fine for a male MSW to me - the bill is fine for male, the breast streaking is fine and the face pattern is fine - while there are known Syrian x GSW hybrids, I’m not aware any records of MSW (which would have to be 1 parent here) hybridising with either Syrian or Great Spotted though?

Not every bird we see is a ‘guidebook’ cookie cutter!

 

[RafaelMatias]

I think we went through this exact discussion some years ago...

Yes:
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=354166&highlight=woodpecker

Further to what's been said by others, there's one additional feature on this bird that is unique to MSW: the red crown is bordered with black only on its rear section, the red above and in front the eye has no black border at all (which would be expected in all other woodpeckers' immatures). EDIT: I see Joern has mentioned this right on post #5!

 

[Deb Burhinus]

Yes:
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=354166&highlight=woodpecker

EDIT: I see Joern has mentioned this right on post #5!

And I think I said also the ‘face pattern is fine’ amongst listing a lot of other features ...I may have inadvertently posted the wrong link but the rest was valid

re the link - how many expert birders does it take to identify a woodpecker 3

 

[RafaelMatias]

And I think I said also the ‘face pattern is fine’ amongst listing a lot of other features

Fair enough!
(But I do read other peoples' posts!!!) :eat: o

 

[creedence]

I think, this is WBW.

Here’s the picture of WBW with white shoulder patch

 

[Andy Adcock]

Here’s the picture of WBW with white shoulder patch

That's deceptive, the shoulder patch as visible in that shot, is part of a much wider, white area which you can see in my shots, attached.

This is the same bird from two ables.

 

[andyb39]

That broad white area is missing on lilfordi, which has a completely black mantle. The white bars on the wings are narrower and the back is not white at all, but black with ladder-like white markings. At first glance, the first thing you notice is how uniformly black it looks, especially as it has a very strong black malar and heavy streak flanking, and as the female has no red on the crown - check this out: https://www.birdsinbulgaria.org/birds.php?l=en&semeystvo=39&vid=235&id=3272&type=gallery.

 

[Andy Adcock]

That broad white area is missing on lilfordi, which has a completely black mantle. The white bars on the wings are narrower and the back is not white at all, but black with ladder-like white markings. At first glance, the first thing you notice is how uniformly black it looks, especially as it has a very strong black malar and heavy streak flanking, and as the female has no red on the crown - check this out: https://www.birdsinbulgaria.org/birds.php?l=en&semeystvo=39&vid=235&id=3272&type=gallery.

But on the shot, posted just above, you can clearly see that the white is there.

I wasn't comparing with lilfordi, just pointing out that they can look to have a shoulder patch at a certain angle.

 

[Larry Sweetland]

Great thread. I'm also convinced it is Middle Spotted, even though it doesn't strike you as one in that pic!