SLC 8x56 and 10x56 Discontinued in USA for 2022? (2 Viewers)

[Conndomat]

Oh man Dennis ... you are just amazing, you jump from one leg to the other and you don't have both feet on the ground.
It doesn't really make sense ...

Andreas

 

[Hermann]

...

Whatever. Needless to say, I don't agree. But I see no sense in arguing with you.

Hermann

 

[Dennis Mau]

Oh man Dennis ... you are just amazing, you jump from one leg to the other and you don't have both feet on the ground.
It doesn't really make sense ...

Andreas

You are welcome to dispute any of my points, instead of just arbitrarily saying they don't make any sense. Honestly, I don't agree with a lot of your reviews either. I find them accurate and logical but lacking emotion and subjective opinion, which I like. You very seldom criticize a binocular when it should be criticized. My major point is I don't think a 65-year-old man is going to benefit that much from a 7 mm exit pupil, and I will stick by it. An 8x56 or 10x56 SLC is for hunting in low light when your eyes are younger, so you can take advantage of the bigger exit pupil. They are not going to be that beneficial in daylight, and they are not generally designed to be a birding binocular. That is why they are discontinued here in the US. Our hunter's don't use their binoculars in that way, whereas, over in Europe, they do.

"European hunters (my father in law is one) usually hunt at dusk or dawn when game is most active. Most hunting is done from a roost overlooking a clearing or field and take only one binocular with them, so it needs to perform well at medium distance and provide maximum light. It turns out that 8x56 seems to be the optimum for most European hunters because 8x is pretty much the minimum you need to be able to identify gender and age of the game in question. 56 mm provides a large EP for good low light performance. One must realize that in most of Europe, there are tight regulations on what can be hunted at what time of the year, with stiff fines if you get it wrong. Investing in the highest quality optics can easily pay for itself when it allows you to see that what you thought was a young buck is actually a doe which is not in season. The lack of a barely noticeable knob next to the ear could be only clue you get. That is why the European binocular manufactures cater to that market so much, and why the 8x56 and 10x56 are still quite popular here in the old country."

 

[Dennis Mau]

Whatever. Needless to say, I don't agree. But I see no sense in arguing with you.

Hermann

That is fine that you don't agree. Everybody has different preferences. My opinions on the roof versus porro debate have changed in the last year or two with the introduction of the latest alpha roofs, like the NL and SF from Swarovski and Zeiss. A few years ago I didn't think the roofs were quite as good as the older porro's, but I think that since the major manufacturers are putting their R&D dollars into roofs, the roofs have caught up with the porros. The porros are probably a better simpler design than the roofs, but technology is leaving them behind because there is no longer any interest in them. For whatever reason, the consumer has decided they prefer the modern look of roofs and the ergonomics, and they are easier for the manufacturers to waterproof and seal than a porro. it is the same with the SP prism versus AK prism debate. You don't need AK prisms anymore. The SP are good enough and have caught up with the AK. When I compare an NL roof to a Habicht porro I can not honestly say the Habicht is more transparent or sharper than the NL. The Habicht and porros in general are no doubt a better VALUE than the roofs, but they are not BETTER than the newer alpha roofs IMO. I still have a Nikon E2 8x30 not because it is the best binocular, an NL 8x32 is no doubt better, but because it is a good value. If you have the money to spend, I really think the current crop of alphas like the NL, SF and Noctivid are the best binoculars you can buy. Look at Allbinos ranking. Every number one ranked binocular in the major birding formats like 8x32, 8x42 and 10x42 is an SF or NL. I don't see any Habichts at the top. What does that tell you? Technology has come a long way in optics.

"If a company put all its resources into a Porro prism binocular, it would be at least as good as a roof prism, if not better. But it would be bulkier. With components and labor efforts being equal, Porro prisms are superior. But like most things in life, the reality is all things aren’t equal. Companies do not put all their resources into Porros because the public wants compact roof prism binos. So, if you want the best bino available, pay a couple of thousand dollars for the best quality roof prisms. But if you have less than about $400 to spend, look hard for a Porro prism binocular from a reputable company."

 

[Conndomat]

That is fine that you don't agree. Everybody has different preferences. My opinions on the roof versus porro debate have changed in the last year or two with the introduction of the latest alpha roofs, like the NL and SF from Swarovski and Zeiss. A few years ago I didn't think the roofs were quite as good as the older porro's, but I think that since the major manufacturers are putting their R&D dollars into roofs, the roofs have caught up with the porros.

That is exactly what makes it pointless to debate with you!

A good six months ago you still got the Fujinon 10x50, a porro that makes all roofs look bad, that great, fantastic and unbelievable Fujinon FMT 10x50!
Next comes an NL again, glare is not important at first, we already had with the EL 8x32, the buyers on E-Bay are rubbing their hands together.

round and round and round and round...gääääähn.

Andreas

 

[Dennis Mau]

That is exactly what makes it pointless to debate with you!

A good six months ago you still got the Fujinon 10x50, a porro that makes all roofs look bad, that great, fantastic and unbelievable Fujinon FMT 10x50!
Next comes an NL again, glare is not important at first, we already had with the EL 8x32, the buyers on E-Bay are rubbing their hands together.

round and round and round and round...gääääähn.

Andreas

I had the Fujinon's before the smaller NL's and SF's came out. I still think the Fujinon's are as good as or better than the older EL's or FL's. I think the newer NL 8x32 and 10x32 and the SF 8x32 and 10x32 are better now than the best porros. I did get glare in the NL 8x42 in the bottom of the FOV which by the way I still think it is a fantastic glass except for the glare. I don't get the glare in the smaller 32 mm SF or NL's. I am not sure why, but it is probably just the way they fit my face. I think the new 32 mm alpha roofs like the SF and NL are astounding. They are almost unreal. Andreas, you're just not keeping up with me. I am way ahead of you!

 

[james holdsworth]

So from the thread beginning, one can still purchase the 8/10X56 SLCs here in the US from a certified Swarovski dealer, as a special order. I guess the only question will be for how long, and if this is possibly the beginning of end of the SLC.
Is the decision based on the lack of sales in the US (follow the money)?

Your going way off topic here…the topic is now Dennis.

 

[henry link]

Dennis,

Why is it so difficult for you to remember to give credit to the people you quote (post # 43 and many others) and give us a link to the sources? I can't see that anything has happened during the last year that should have upset the list below of your ten favorite binoculars from last January.

What are your 10 favorite binoculars

What are your 10 most favorite binoculars that you own or have owned ranked from number one to number ten and a short explanation of why they are your favorite.

www.birdforum.net

Apparently the top four are no longer even worth mentioning. Those of us who have been here a while know that before this time next year there will be a new crop of favorite binoculars, prisms, apertures, exit pupil sizes, etc. and you'll be just as certain about everything then as you are now and were last year. Eventually there will be a total reversal of opinion and then on to a new cycle. It does get tiresome.

 

[Dennis Mau]

Dennis,

Why is it so difficult for you to remember to give credit to the people you quote (post # 43 and many others) and give us a link to the sources? I can't see that anything has happened during the last year that should have upset the list below of your ten favorite binoculars from last January.

What are your 10 favorite binoculars

What are your 10 most favorite binoculars that you own or have owned ranked from number one to number ten and a short explanation of why they are your favorite.

www.birdforum.net

Apparently the top four are no longer even worth mentioning. Those of us who have been here a while know that before this time next year there will be a new crop of favorite binoculars, prisms, apertures, exit pupil sizes, etc. and you'll be just as certain about everything then as you are now and were last year. Eventually there will be a total reversal of opinion and then on to a new cycle. It does get tiresome.

We had the introduction of all the new 32 mm alpha's like the SF 8x32, 10x32, and the NL 8x32 and 10x32 this year. These four binoculars IMO are game changers. These four 32 mm binoculars are almost unreal in what Zeiss and Swarovski have done with a 32 mm aperture. They have huge, highly corrected FOV's with sharp edges and almost no distortion, and they are as bright as many 42 mm binoculars I have seen. Sure, my opinion is going to change when the market is changing so quickly! It is only logical that it would. It gets tiresome for me to hear about your Zeiss FL 8x56 over and over and over again as being the ultimate binocular when very few people are going to carry an 8x56 for birding except for a few optical purists, let me tell you. Have you even tried the new 32 mm alpha's? Try them, and then you might understand why I am changing my opinion. To get back on thread, that is why the SLC 8x56 and 10x56 are discontinued. They don't SELL any! Swarovski probably sells a thousand 8x32's for every 8x56 they sell. When I had an SLC 8x56, it took me FOREVER to sell it.

 

[Patudo]

Surely the key thing is that we now know those models have not ceased being made, but can be ordered from Austria for those (however many or few there might be) who wish to purchase them?

 

[CharleyBird]

Honestly, I don't agree with a lot of your reviews either. I find them accurate and logical but lacking emotion and subjective opinion, which I like.

Always good to understand what somebody likes and why
😄

 

[Dennis Mau]

Always good to understand what somebody likes and why
😄

But you don't always have to agree with them. Some reviewers I agree with more and some I don't. I like it when they express their subjective opinion, even though I know it just their opinion, instead of just specifying the specifications of the binoculars. I want to know if they liked them, even though I may not.

 

[CharleyBird]

But you don't always have to agree with them. Some reviewers I agree with more and some I don't. I like it when they express their subjective opinion, even though I know it just their opinion, instead of just specifying the specifications of the binoculars. I want to know if they liked them, even though I may not.

I'll leave it to the crowd to judge whether you made the save of the season

 

[james holdsworth]

I’m amazed that people are surprised….10 years should be enough to understand someone’s psychology.

 

[Dennis Mau]

I’m amazed that people are surprised….10 years should be enough to understand someone’s psychology.

I figured out your psychology in less than 6 months! It is very simple. Just criticize everybody else and don't add nothing to the thread. If you don't like what I say, put me on ignore. You don't read an author's book you don't like do you? Don't read my posts if you don't like what I say. I don't read a lot of posts on Bird Forum because I am not interested in them, or I can predict what they are going to say. But just because I don't agree with them, or they change their mind too often, or they repeat the same thing over and over, I don't criticize them for it. At least they add something to the thread. You remind of a movie critic that keeps going to movies he doesn't like. Chill out bro! It is just a binocular forum.

 

[jaymann]

There's so much wrong with Dennis' broad generalizations it makes sense to have a look at his claims one by one:

This is plain wrong. There are plenty of older people whose pupils open to more than 5mm. And binoculars with larger exit pupils are always easier to use than binoculars with smaller exit pupils no matter whether your eye pupils open to more than 5mm.

Really? No need for dielectric coatings, better transmission, better contrast ... This all counts for nothing?

That proves exactly what? I mean other that that Swarovski and Zeiss made the assumption that customers "prefer" the more compact bodies of SP prism binoculars?

10+ years in coating developments lie between the FL and the SF. So your argument proves what - other than that lens coatings evolved in those past 10 years?

ANY improvement in transmission makes a difference, and yes, it is visible. It's not just that the image will be brighter with higher transmission, it's also better contrast and transparency. Compare e.g. the Habicht 7x42 to any other 7x42 using SP prisms.

Not really. It's that the big three decided customers won't notice the differences and prefer the slightly more compact bodies to the longer bodies of binoculars with AK prisms.

ANY binocular made to the same standard as the modern alphas BUT using porro prisms or AK prisms will be better than even the best binoculars using SP prisms. Visibly better.

Hermann

Best answer 👌

 

[Dennis Mau]

Best answer 👌

I think you would have to pretty lucky to use a 7 mm exit pupil when you are over 65 years old and even if you did, it would only be beneficial in low light not in the daytime when most birders use their binoculars. If the small increase in eye placement comfort from a 5 mm exit pupil to a 7 mm exit pupil is worth carrying an 8x56, I guess that is up to you. For my birding an 8x32, 10x32, 8x42 or 10x42 is the sweet spot for brightness, eye placement comfort and weight. Lately, I have been liking the 8x32's and 10x32's with the introduction of the new alpha Swarovski NL and Zeiss SF. These little 32 mm's alphas are almost unbelievably good with huge FOV's and are probably the pinnacle of birding binoculars right now. I think I am in the majority, and these are the big reasons the 8x56 and 10x56 SLC's are being discontinued. The SLC 15x56 is continuing because a lot of hunters use them on a tripod.

 

[jaymann]

I think you would have to pretty lucky to use a 7 mm exit pupil when you are over 65 years old and even if you did, it would only be beneficial in low light not in the daytime when most birders use their binoculars. If the small increase in eye placement comfort from a 5 mm exit pupil to a 7 mm exit pupil is worth carrying an 8x56, I guess that is up to you. For my birding an 8x32, 10x32, 8x42 or 10x42 is the sweet spot for brightness, eye placement comfort and weight. Lately, I have been liking the 8x32's and 10x32's with the introduction of the new alpha Swarovski NL and Zeiss SF. These little 32 mm's alphas are almost unbelievably good with huge FOV's and are probably the pinnacle of birding binoculars right now. I think I am in the majority, and these are the big reasons the 8x56 and 10x56 SLC's are being discontinued. The SLC 15x56 is continuing because a lot of hunters use them on a tripod.

I like 8x56 because the view is forgiving , 3D and immersive. Big aperture optics have there own benefits which you may not have experienced. Maybe I am one of the lucky people who understand it and you don’t. Your experience could be unique and no need to force it on others. I met Gordon in his shop. He is a nice guy and I share his experience with 8x56 binocular. I am 37 years old and can see the benefits more during the day then in night.
(My Swarovskis include EL 8.5x42,12x50,slc 8x56,15x56)

 

[Dennis Mau]

I like 8x56 because the view is forgiving , 3D and immersive. Big aperture optics have there own benefits which you may not have experienced. Maybe I am one of the lucky people who understand it and you don’t. Your experience could be unique and no need to force it on others. I met Gordon in his shop. He is a nice guy and I share his experience with 8x56 binocular. I am 37 years old and can see the benefits more during the day then in night.
(My Swarovskis include EL 8.5x42,12x50,slc 8x56,15x56)

I have had many 8x56 binoculars including the Steiner Shadowquest 8x56, Zeiss FL 8x56 and the Swarovski SLC 8x56. They are slightly more forgiving because of the bigger exit pupil, giving you more room to move your eye around, and they can give you a little more 3D because of the larger objective as explained from Cloudy NIght's.

"A greater diameter of the objective lenses helps the 3d view by introducing a 3d effect produced by the parallax effect in objects out of focus: a roof 8x50 will seem to show more 3D view than a roof 8x30. Parallax effect in objects out of focus means that, when the shifts a bit laterally, everything closer or farther than the focused object will shift slightly with respect to what is in focus. This is a very obvious effect when using a terrestrial scope like a 20/60x80: when the eye is shifted to, say, the right, objects farther than the focused one shift to right, objects closer than it shift to left. This effect gives some impression of 3D view, and is very useful when looking at birds in the thick of a tree, because a slight movement of the eye helps to see beyond the branch that hides the bird. If I reduce the objective diameter, or if increase the magnification, the parallax effect is reduced. In binoculars, the 3d view can be helped by the parallax effect, especially when eyes don’t stay always perfectly on axis, which is usual with hand held binoculars."

But the major factor in 3D is objective lens spacing. The farther apart your objective lenses, the better the 3D out to about 100 yards. So if you really want good 3D, any smaller porro will be better than a bigger aperture roof prism like the SLC 8x56. Immersiveness is determined by the AFOV and the Swarovski SLC 8x56 has a very average 60 degree AFOV, whereas, some of the newer 32 mm roof's like the Swarovski NL 10x32 has a truly immersive AFOV of 69 degrees. For you, the 8x56 would be brighter in low light, but you would not see a difference in brightness in the daytime except maybe in the shadows. The biggest advantage an 8x56 has over an 8x32 is lack of optical aberrations because of the large exit pupil, they pass the field stop of the binocular and never reach your eyes. For general birding, what do you prefer, the EL 8.5x42 or the SLC 8x56? You have four nice binoculars there. I understand the advantages of big aperture binoculars, but I question if they are the best tool for the average birder. I think the average birder doesn't feel the advantages are worth the disadvantages of weight and bulk. That is why they are discontinued. Here is an older fellow that likes big aperture binoculars.

Size Matters: The Case for Really Big Binoculars

Size Matters: A Case for Really Big Binoculars Contrary to what some of us would like to believe size really does matter. Flight, for example, imposes strict limits on size. Ostriches...

www.audubon.org

 

[karmantra]

I sell about 5 a year and none of them have pulled off your trifecta of fishing for discounts, returning a binocular the same afternoon they bought it (before the sun went down when you wanted them to look at stars), and then claiming I wouldn't be in business if it wasn't for customers like you (that one kind of baffled me).

proudpapa56: Perfect response, couldn’t agree with you more!