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  1. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    Some Shrikes have surprisingly good songs. One of my most memorable nights ever was spent in the Morrocan Sahara in the 90's. The desert was lit by a full moon, an experience in it's own right but we were surounded by calling Stone Curlews, a wonderfully, atmospheric night. A
  2. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    And it won't be associated with rake....or possibly it would in the literary (Chaucer) sense? A
  3. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    Never occured to me, my trip lists for Asia are littered with HO's. Lucky my wife is Russian and has never picked up on it or there may be Q's to answer!!! A
  4. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    This is what most Brits do I think. A
  5. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    I made that comment in regard to someone else posting how some top listers have ticked birds on very questionable views, nothing to do with HO's. ' Originally Posted by Xenospiza @Andy: allegedly most of the top world listers, including the guy you think plays the game correctly, count shapes...
  6. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    Where did anyone suggest that listing HO's was a 'morality' issue? I stated that some birders have looser morals than others in deciding what is a 'tickable' view. This will obviously have it's roots in the competitive side to listing, not wanting to slip backwards against your rivals. The ABA...
  7. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    Not a Freudian, carelesness I'm afraid! To bring blind people in to the argument is frankly silly, how could they submit sight records? Any listing sites aren't worth looking at if we don't know the rules, not that I bother with them anyway. The question most non birders will ask a birder is...
  8. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    There are certainly no sour grapes from me, people can tick whatever they want, I'm just highlighting the absurdity of comparison lists with different rules, pointless. The OP asked if it was OK to tick HO's, my answer remains the same, if everyone does then no problem but they don't. It is...
  9. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    That's a morals issue, a personal thing and some have loser morals than others. If you look at the top and I know Jon personally, he notes alongside his list that this is seen only records but a couple of his rivals are known to count HO's. It should be made clearer what the rules are really or...
  10. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    On this basis I'd have another 50 or so life birds, some of them very rare indeed but I get a much bigger kick from seeing a bird having utilised patience and field craft in doing so. Shchneider's Pitta eluded me for nine days on a volcano in Sumatra, I heard it once but haven't ticked it and...
  11. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    And that's the way it should be but the actual listing is the issue or more accurately any list that you want to compare to someone elses. Surely for such purposes we should all stick to the same rules or there's very little point in having published lists of any kind? The World rankings may be...
  12. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    Lists are not preposterous or incomparable at all if the same criteria are attached by each 'lister'. The only variable is the individual and their own listing morals and the only thing that makes lists preposterous and non comparable are people that bend or simply ignore the rules for...
  13. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    The general principle of a holistic approach cannot be argued with but the OP was about 'ticking' birds based on a vocalisation only. Vocalisations are an undoubted part of any birders skill set but there is as much room for error as there is in sight records, arguably more so. How many county...
  14. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    My experience is that it's come from America. I personally don't see how the emphasis on actually seeing a bird is 'constrictive', it's certainly easier to tick a HO bird. With an emphasis on HO's, the skill of visibly identifying some birds which are found when not vocalising, will be...
  15. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    Valid in you own mind doesn't mean it's valid for comparison with other lists where people as a matter of course, expect that all claimed species have been seen? Bottom line, most people assume that a persons list is seen birds. A
  16. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    It's a wonderful song and from mid May to early June, we usually have 3 that we can hear as we lay in bed, one of them just 30m away. A great way to fall asleep. A
  17. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    Sums it up well, I enjoy bird song too, I often lay awake at night listening to the beautiful song of the Thrush Nightingale outside our home but would not tick it unless seen for my World list. Not ticking does not mean not enjoying. A
  18. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    Yes, Russia....:t: Loxley's record was rejected, they ate it before submitting a description. A
  19. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    I got mine with Dave Bakewell in Penang, came in very easily but they are usually tough. A
  20. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    That sums up my point Larry, thank you. I pursued a Bay Owl nearly all night in Cambodia one year. The bird was calling and gave us the real run around, we didn't see it and I didn't tick it for about another 5 years when I actually saw one but it was recorderd as a HO on my trip list. A
  21. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    The thread was about 'counting' HO's and veered towards the enjoyment of the all facets of the hobby. Some were supporting the counting of all bird contacts I believe as a holistic approach to birding which is fine. I was reinforcing the point that it depends what kind of list you want to hold...
  22. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    As I said before, if you publish a list for the purpose of comparison to others on a league table basis, your HO's should not count unless everyone's do and AFAIK, they don't. What people do with their private listing is entirely up to them. Most birders I know do not count HO's unless it's...
  23. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    Birds and many other animals are hyper vigilant and well used to being flushed by many different things, it's in built for survival. I draw the line at nesting birds or if birds are being prevented from feeding. A
  24. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    And that takes us in a whole new direction from the OP. A
  25. Andy Adcock

    Should you tick "heard only" birds?

    Ditto A
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