Should you tick "heard only" birds? (2 Viewers)

[Farnboro John]

They are totally separate issues tho, that have been discussed many times.

It's personal choice of course, if you enjoy just hearing birdsong so be it, but I can tell you you are missing out on a quite wonderful hobby or passion in trying to see birds. Each to their own though.

Mmm.. The point I was trying to make was that there is no need, and one can actually reduce the level of fun and enjoyment, by concentrating on one aspect of what is actually a multi-sensory experience: and at different times and in differing circumstances different aspects of the bird come to the fore.

Pre-dawn at Minsmere in early May is emphatically not about what you can see: Daukes Hide at Cley is more or less all about the visuals, and so is the precipice of Bempton Cliffs. I see no reason to deny myself the best of each.

John

 

[Julian61]

There is no right or wrong here. My father-in-law can no longer hear higher pitched birds and I know he'd prefer to hear rather than see many of these species. I've also come across some blind birders who still get huge satisfaction from their avian experiences. It's not imperative, but why not reach out and appreciate that we all get different and equally fine experiences, aural or visual.

 

[Nutcracker]

... more or less all about the visuals, and so is the precipice of Bempton Cliffs.

Like any good seabird colony, it is very much about the noise!


And even more, the scent :king: :-O

 

[Nutcracker]

Of course with the Farne Islands, you can also test tern identification by touch . . . to be precise, the amount of blood drawn . . . 3

 

[Colin Clark]

I only tick seen birds for lifers but happy to tick heard-only birds subsequently........

 

[wolfbirder]

Mmm.. The point I was trying to make was that there is no need, and one can actually reduce the level of fun and enjoyment, by concentrating on one aspect of what is actually a multi-sensory experience: and at different times and in differing circumstances different aspects of the bird come to the fore.

Pre-dawn at Minsmere in early May is emphatically not about what you can see: Daukes Hide at Cley is more or less all about the visuals, and so is the precipice of Bempton Cliffs. I see no reason to deny myself the best of each.

John

Sorry John, my first line was in reference to the post above, not to yours.

But yes I can understand that part of birding involves the delight of sound, I personally just cannot separate that from the real treasure that lies in obtaining sight of the creatures that make the sounds, but this is all semantics. Everyone's point is equally valid.:t:

 

[JTweedie]

I'd mention heard only on my list, but if I knew without any doubt what species it was then I'd tick it. If I had some doubts I wouldn't, although I may mention it as being possibly X or Y, but it wouldn't be on the list.

Also, what about birders who are blind or visually impaired? Their experience of relying on hearing alone doesn't make what they identify and record any less valid than those who list mainly on sightings.

 

[dantheman]

I now put equal credence to a record of a bird heard personally or for the county/scientific record. For example hearing a Woodpecker 'chip' or yaffle, or a distant Pheasant. Bird songs and the various confusing little call notes of some the passerines ... and I'm not always so confident in many cases.

It would count for all listing purposes, but when birding I will always strain to see the bird making the call - the tinkling chatter of Goldfinches flying overhead and I want to see them too, even if just a dinky silhouette, irregardless

 

[Andy Adcock]

I now put equal credence to a record of a bird heard personally or for the county/scientific record. For example hearing a Woodpecker 'chip' or yaffle, or a distant Pheasant. Bird songs and the various confusing little call notes of some the passerines ... and I'm not always so confident in many cases.

It would count for all listing purposes, but when birding I will always strain to see the bird making the call - the tinkling chatter of Goldfinches flying overhead and I want to see them too, even if just a dinky silhouette, irregardless

As I said before, if you publish a list for the purpose of comparison to others on a league table basis, your HO's should not count unless everyone's do and AFAIK, they don't. What people do with their private listing is entirely up to them.

Most birders I know do not count HO's unless it's acceptable in e.g a county bird race. If you're keeping a personal year list for you garden or patch, most people accept HO's and they will be recorded as such. I hear Black Woodpecker on my patch and record those for my daily notes but if it was a world tick, I wouldn't count it until I saw it, even if I heard it every day.

It's hardly a comparison if two people have let's say a 3000 World list but one has actually seen them all and another has 300 birds on the list that are HO's.

It's the same as which taxonomy to apply, that's up to you as well but for competitive listing, all criteria must be the same or it's totally pointless.


A

 

[dantheman]

As I said before, if you publish a list for the purpose of comparison to others on a league table basis, your HO's should not count unless everyone's do and AFAIK, they don't. What people do with their private listing is entirely up to them.

Most birders I know do not count HO's unless it's acceptable in e.g a county bird race. If you're keeping a personal year list for you garden or patch, most people accept HO's and they will be recorded as such. I hear Black Woodpecker on my patch and record those for my daily notes but if it was a world tick, I wouldn't count it until I saw it, even if I heard it every day.

It's hardly a comparison if two people have comparable lists let's 3000 World list but one has actually seen them all and another has 300 birds on the list that are HO's.

It's the same as which taxonomy to apply, that's up to you as well but for competitive listing, all criteria must be the same or it's pointless.


A

Sure. Was anyone saying otherwise?

 

[dantheman]

I now put equal credence to a record of a bird heard personally or for the county/scientific record. For example hearing a Woodpecker 'chip' or yaffle, or a distant Pheasant. Bird songs and the various confusing little call notes of some the passerines ... and I'm not always so confident in many cases.

It would count for all listing purposes, but when birding I will always strain to see the bird making the call - the tinkling chatter of Goldfinches flying overhead and I want to see them too, even if just a dinky silhouette, irregardless

Ah, you're referring to the 'count for all listing purposes' bit.

Hmmm, well Goldfinch is already on my World List, so not a problem

Silly things like World Lists or Bird Races, etc ... yes of course everyone should be doing it on the same basis - either agreed by concensus, or with the caveat that if you're going to do it your own way, but unfairly so, you don't get the full respect.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Sure. Was anyone saying otherwise?

The thread was about 'counting' HO's and veered towards the enjoyment of the all facets of the hobby. Some were supporting the counting of all bird contacts I believe as a holistic approach to birding which is fine.

I was reinforcing the point that it depends what kind of list you want to hold or if you want to publish it or compare.


A

 

[Larry Sweetland]

For me, the title of the thread and the content of the original post are two different things.

For me, in almost all respects, to identify an unseen bird by voice is every bit as valid for recording purposes. But for me the word 'tick' (which only appears in the title) implies a completely different concept: the moment at which you can metaphorically blissfully lie back and roll back your eyes with the needle hanging out your arm. For me that moment doesn't come until, for the first time ever, you've seen the bird. Even if, eg an incredibly easy to identify by voice nightjar, that I've never seen before, is blasting my ear off in the dark, I just don't get that rush until glimpsing it. I'm not saying that's right, all I'm saying is that for me, that's just how it is.

 

[Andy Adcock]

For me, the title of the thread and the content of the original post are two different things.

For me, in almost all respects, to identify an unseen bird by voice is every bit as valid for recording purposes. But for me the word 'tick' (which only appears in the title) implies a completely different concept: the moment at which you can metaphorically blissfully lie back and roll back your eyes with the needle hanging out your arm. For me that moment doesn't come until, for the first time ever, you've seen the bird. Even if, eg an incredibly easy to identify by voice nightjar, that I've never seen before, is blasting my ear off in the dark, I just don't get that rush until glimpsing it. I'm not saying that's right, all I'm saying is that for me, that's just how it is.

That sums up my point Larry, thank you.

I pursued a Bay Owl nearly all night in Cambodia one year. The bird was calling and gave us the real run around, we didn't see it and I didn't tick it for about another 5 years when I actually saw one but it was recorderd as a HO on my trip list.


A

 

[Larry Sweetland]

That sums up my point Larry, thank you.

I pursued a Bay Owl nearly all night in Cambodia one year. The bird was calling and gave us the real run around, we didn't see it and I didn't tick it for about another 5 years when I actually saw one but it was recorderd as a HO on my trip list.


A

Don't talk to me about heard only Bay Owls! I'm still awaiting a visual date with that one :-C

 

[Andy Adcock]

Don't talk to me about heard only Bay Owls! I'm still awaiting a visual date with that one :-C

I got mine with Dave Bakewell in Penang, came in very easily but they are usually tough.


A

 

[MJB]

I hear Black Woodpecker on my patch and record those for my daily notes but if it was a world tick, I wouldn't count it until I saw it, even if I heard it every day.A

....just guessing, of course, but not on your Nottingham patch...?

The last one in Sherwood Forest was despatched by a certain Locksley in the early 13th century, I've been told.:-O:-O
MJB

 

[Andy Adcock]

....just guessing, of course, but not on your Nottingham patch...?

The last one in Sherwood Forest was despatched by a certain Locksley in the early 13th century, I've been told.:-O:-O
MJB

Yes, Russia....:t:

Loxley's record was rejected, they ate it before submitting a description.


A

 

[MJB]

Loxley's record was rejected, they ate it before submitting a description.A

Nice one, Andy!:eat:MJB

 

[mulligatawny owl]

Interesting thread. Sound is a big part of ' birdwatching' for me, if I go looking for a nightingale, a turtle dove, or a nightjar for example and had to chose between seeing or hearing them I'd chose hearing them, such is the evocativness of those particular bird sounds for me.