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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Omani Owl (1 Viewer)

Mysticete said:
If only there was a way to empirically demonstrate how divergent this taxon was from Hume's Owl...
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Would it not be possible to develop an empirical system to measure vocal differences based on sampling digital data (perhaps this already exists?) - for an owl this might be more meaningful than studying morphological / plumage differences, or even measuring genetic divergence?

The sonograms in the DB paper comparing Omani Owl to recordings of Hume's Tawny Owl from different parts of its range are quite persuasive!
 
Athene noctua noctua – Italian (Little) Owl
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Hi, do you know if is this the correct range for noctua - c, s and se Europe to nw Russia? Or has something changed? It seems a bit strange to name it Italian Little Owl in NW Russia!
 
'Italian Owl'

Paul Mills said:
Hi, do you know if is this the correct range for noctua - c, s and se Europe to nw Russia? Or has something changed? It seems a bit strange to name it Italian Little Owl in NW Russia!
Click to expand...
That reflects the extensive range given by König & Weick 2008 (C Europe, north to Denmark, south to Italy, Sardinia, Corsica, east to NW Russia and N Albania), and IOC, for noctua. But other recent sources give a more restricted range...
  • Holt et al 1999 (HBW 5): C Europe (from about S Germany) S to Sardinia and Sicily, E to Romania.
  • eBird/Clements: Sardinia, Corsica, Italy and Yugoslavia[!] to Carpathian Mts.
  • H&M4: Corsica, Sardinia and Italy to Slovakia, NW Romania and Croatia.
The type locality (Carniola) is in Slovenia.
 
Last edited:
Richard Klim said:
That reflects the extensive range given by König & Weick 2008 (C Europe, north to Denmark, south to Italy, Sardinia, Corsica, east to NW Russia and N Albania), and IOC, for noctua. But other recent sources give a more restricted range...
  • Holt et al 1999 (HBW 5): C Europe (from about S Germany) S to Sardinia and Sicily, E to Romania.
  • eBird/Clements: Sardinia, Corsica, Italy and Yugoslavia[!] to Carpathian Mts.
  • H&M4: Corsica, Sardinia and Italy to Slovakia, NW Romania and Croatia.
The type locality (Carniola) is in Slovenia.
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So how come it gets the name Italian Owl? If anything, Slovenian Owl, no?
 
Regarding range: Little Owl is rare but not extinct in Denmark (I have seen one myself!) and there is a project to help them survive (I am afraid only in Danish): http://www.naturstyrelsen.dk/Naturbeskyttelse/Artsleksikon/Dyr/Fugle/Ugler/Kirkeugle/

I have no insight into which subspecies (could probably look it up later if need be) -- but it does look like Koenig and Weick are more realistic than some of the other sources.

Niels
 
njlarsen said:
...it does look like Koenig and Weick are more realistic than some of the other sources.
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The other sources indicate that the subspecies in C/N Europe is vidalii (which K&W restrict to W Europe from Spain and Portugal to Belgium, introduced in England).
 
Richard Klim said:
The other sources indicate that the subspecies in C/N Europe is vidallii (which K&W restrict to W Europe from Spain and Portugal to Belgium, introduced in England).
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:eek!: Sorry, I misunderstood what you intended to say then. :eek!:

It will be interesting to see what some older books I have say about subspecies in Denmark.

Niels
 
So much for that: my several decades old book mentioned that the Little owl occurred in several subspecies but did not name the one they thought inhabited Denmark!

Niels
 
I just found the official Danish bird list by the Danish rarities committee 2013. They think that the Danish subspecies of A. noctua is noctua.

Niels
 
Paul Mills said:
so vidalii range would likely stretch from Iberia to NW Russia?
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vidalii:
  • König & Weick: W Europe from Spain and Portugal to Belgium.
  • HBW: W & N Europe (S Baltic S to Iberia, including Balearic Is) E to NW Russia; noctua intergrades with vidalii over wide area from S France E to Czech and Slovak Republics.
  • eBird/Clements: S Baltic to Iberian Pen., Balearic Is., Poland and nw Russia.
  • H&M4: W and C Europe east to Baltic States and Belarus.
The one thing for sure is that the type localities of noctua and vidalii are Slovenia (Carmiola) and Spain (Murcia) respectively. But there are clearly differing opinions on the attribution of northern populations (from the Netherlands east to NW Russia). Hopefully to be discussed in Undiscovered owls...
 
And two more:

Vaurie 1965: Western Europe, from Holland and Belgium southward through France to the Iberian Peninsula, grading into nominate noctua in western Germany.

Glutz 1980: Westeuropa von der Iberischen Halbinsel nordwärts bis Belgien, Niederlande und eingebürgert auf den Britischen Inseln....noctua...mit Übergängen zu A. n. vidalii in Westdeutschland

These two descriptions are similar to each other. Otherwise, it seems that not everybody was copying the same original source and several independent studies have been performed. It is possible that the real cause of varying treatments is that the two named subspecies is so close that it is difficult to draw clear distinguishing lines.
 
jalid said:
It is possible that the real cause of varying treatments is that the two named subspecies is so close that it is difficult to draw clear distinguishing lines.
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Indeed. But the fact that The Sound Approach is highlighting A n noctua 'Italian Owl' as a distinctive form suggests that a south/central European population is at least vocally different to vidalii.
 
Richard Klim said:
Indeed. But the fact that The Sound Approach is highlighting A n noctua 'Italian Owl' as a distinctive form suggests that a south/central European population is at least vocally different to vidalii.
Click to expand...

That might be worth a wager, Richard.
MJB
 
A short interview (video) from yesterday to Magnus Robb in a Portuguese TV channel (sorry, he speaks in Portuguese but still might be interesting to some of you).
HERE

Cheers
 
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