Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
So, we're down to "magic" now? So you're the anti-Purple Heron?
Chosun, I have found your posts very fascinating, and even enjoy the pseudo-religious leanings (as I lean that way myself), but this really changes the conversation to a degree that the conversation itself can't be had.
Science has it's issues, and good science freely admits it doesn't know everything, but without the science, such as it is, we couldn't even all have a common ground to speak from; each being entrenched in our own psyche.
As for the comment about "boutique agriculture," it really is. I agree "doing it in a way that is less harmful to the Earth" is a good thing, it has been pretty well proven it would take alot more land-per-human to do it correctly; heck even intuitively that's easy to see.
An example, watched an interesting video that walked through whether "organic" vs. "non-organic" farming methods were better than the other. Came out a tiny, tiny net in favor of organic, but overall is a net draw. The organic farming is better for the planet in theory, but production of it to meet demand has meant companies are producing it in ways that cause just as much harm in other ways. Was very sobering.
(And also takes me back to "we just need less people"...an always uncomfortable discussion. One also could argue science got us into this environmental mess via technology...)
If you're gonna ditch the science altogether, then that doesn't leave room for discussion, only proselytizing. I gave up that game a long time ago; that brick wall hurts.
I think by trying to frame infinite nature from a finite position you may have read things into it that just aren't there. Religion is one step too far removed for my liking - I like my light direct. Perhaps even your concept of magic needs some finessing? 'Magic' doesn't displace 'science' - magic contains science. Known science is but a mere subset of all that is - there are other ways of knowing (or being) what is as yet unknown o
Think of it this way:-
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".
Or, (Gehm's corollary) - "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced".
As I have explained above and before - there's too many pyramids of assumptions built into the science on this issue for me to place any credence in it. I read through the opening pages of the literature - but couldn't get past all those assumptions - it made my head hurt ! I don't care if 97% of scientists do agree. There would have been a time when 97% of scientists agreed on 'ether' as well ..... thank goodness 3% of scientists put that airy-fairy notion to bed.
When standing in the shade of an old growth woodland by an ephemeral wetland with fully functioning hydrology (I did manage to restore a relatively small ~100's of acres area to that condition, the type that we've 99% destroyed), I've measured temperatures fully 20°C lower than the surrounding air, I've measure Carbon content in the soil 4, 8x or more that of the surrounding area, I've made rain fall whereas on surrounding areas it evaporates before it hits the ground, I've measured biodiversity that has exploded compared to the sterilized 'deserts' around it. I've seen water flow in the harshest of droughts. Thus I care not for 0.7°C or so of average temperature rise.
Your the 2nd person to misconstrue "boutique agriculture" so perhaps I will detail that more prescriptively in the appropriate thread. It absolutely can work - win - win - win. I would even support 'factory farming' animals appropriately - ie. with vastly vastly improved animal welfare, appropriately located (by necessity such a density of living being generated heat necessitates being in a cooler climate. It is also madness to locate them on arable or even grazing land), and with fully self-sufficient (energy/ heat, soil producing even) purpose designed facilities. All of this is so simple that only the inhumane pursuit of the almighty $ gets in the road.
What concerns me with the Climate Change 'religion' is that it does nothing to address the real causes of our issues.
Eventually too we must also address the sheer numbers of people if only for the sheer square footage (some sayings just don't translate into metric well ! of concrete that each demands. We either need to adjust the way we live - kilometres high self-sufficient crystal skyscrapers ...... or adjust the number of people. One only needs to peruse the comments sections of any Mars Colonization articles/ proposals to realize that inter-nation, inter-peoples, inter-species, and inter-generational equity is still a distant dream ...... it seems stoopid people do a lot of breeding !
Chosun :gh: