Northern Bullfinch Identification (1 Viewer)

Stephen Dunstan · Oct 23, 2004

Andrew,

Yes they do sound distinctly different to Bullfinches down here, seen loads on Fair Isle over the last fortnight and was surprised the call was dstinctive as I didn't know that previously. I think I can honestly say I have had more Bullfinch bird days in the last week than the previous ten years (they are locally rare in this part of Lancs).

Regards,

Stephen.

Andrew Whitehouse · Oct 23, 2004

Hi Stephen,

It's quite striking isn't it. I spoke to a ringer today who was very sceptical about all records of Northern Bullfinches around northeast Scotland, even when I mentioned the strange call. The four 'Northerns' I've seen are the only Bullfinches I've seen since moving to Aberdeen.

DJ Sideboard · Oct 25, 2004

Apparently Scandinavia too is seeing large numbers of big, oddly calling Bullfinchs at the moment. An origin further east then 'normal Northern Bullfinchs' has been postulated, so we may be seeing something special here.

Birdspotter · Oct 25, 2004

Andrew Whitehouse said:
I spoke to a ringer today who was very sceptical about all records of Northern Bullfinches around northeast Scotland, even when I mentioned the strange call.

Is that because they have to catch them first before they can identify them.
I saw a superb male yesterday in Lothian, the second this autumn and the first records since 1921 in our Region clearly there has been a huge influx. :clap:

lee_adc · Oct 26, 2004

When I have been looking on the net for Northern Bullfinch pictures and references, lots of people seem to be only happy to "accept" records of trapped/rung birds.
Does this mean that the "establishment" i.e. record comitties regards the identification of Northern as to difficult in the field as to be reliable.
Some birders seem happy to identify them in the field are they over confident? or is it just wishfull thinking?

Andrew Whitehouse · Oct 26, 2004

Hi Lee,

From the literature I've looked at, it seems that Northern Bullfinch can only be diagnostically identified on measurements. Having said that, the large size is fairly obvious in the field when other birds are available for comparison. I guess that it's also a bit easier to ID them in places like Shetland where there's not much chance of British Bullfinches being around. As has been said elsewhere on this thread, the calls that these birds are giving are also quite striking, although I've not found much in the literature on this.

As this year's influx seems to be unprecedented, I'll be interested to see what happens with the records committees. There are clearly plenty of Bullfinches coming into Britain from further north and east - an influx that deserves to be as fully documented as possible.

sphinx79 · Oct 26, 2004

I can confirm that there has been a heavy passage of Northern Bullfinches through Falsterbo in the past couple of weeks. A contact call described over here in Sweden as like a toy trumpet (to my ear similar to but softer and less piping than one of the Two-barred Crossbill calls) has been heard widely and there has been much discussion of this since many Swedish birders say they're unfamiliar with the call. A birder friend who's lived in Falsterbo for 25 years says he's never heard the call before! Thus it's probably same to assume that these are eastern birds, perhaps from Russia, though I'm not aware of there being any way to separate them from our local Scandinavian birds in the field.

lee_adc · Oct 27, 2004

Do Northern Bullfinchs (or ones not normally living in the UK) have the pink breast colour extending further around the back amost to the back of the head/neck?
Compared to the British birds, where the pink stops below the ear, the grey back colour bleeding into the pink at that point.

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/23197/sort/1/cat/all/page/1

http://www.birdforum.net/pp_gallery/showphoto.php/photo/28993/sort/1/cat/all/page/1

Mike Pennington · Oct 27, 2004

lee_adc said:
Due Northern Bullfinchs (or ones not normally living in the UK) have the pink breast colour extending further around the back amost to the back of the head/neck?
Compared to the British birds, where the pink stops below the ear, the grey back colour bleeding into the pink at that point.

Lee,

In a very quick look at photos on the net you may be on to something. To me the Northerns tend to have slightly more extensive and more clear-cut cheeks. If you go to RSPB images, however, there is at least set of photos oby Mark Hamblin which seem to either disprove this or show a Northern - looking at it yesterday I thought it was a Northern on colour so maybe ...

PS Where is your Northern photo from.

Jane Turner · Oct 27, 2004

I can't recall an inlux like this.. does it mean we might also be in for a Pine Grosser or two?

lee_adc · Oct 27, 2004

Mike,

Cann't remember where I got the photo! But in Birdwatching magazine from about April last year there was a feature on identifing "Northern" types of Chaffinch, Robin and Bullfinch. I am sure it mentioned the neck colour as an ID point, along with size and call.

I agree with you lots of photos on the net and on the RSPB images web site showing both features in the two photos.
So either northern's are being mis-identified as British Bullfinch's, perhaps as know one is really looking for Northern types or British Bullfinchs can have the breast colour extending around the back of the neck!!!

I think I am more confused than I was before!

Alan G · Oct 27, 2004

So, then - can anyone confirm whether these are Northern Bullfinch (seen today at Holy Island) ?

The call they were making was a deep, bellowing 'Honk' (sorry - I'm crap at describing sounds !!)

And - they were similar if not slightly larger than the waxwings that they were in amongst.

Thanks

Alan

Mike Pennington · Oct 28, 2004

Alan G said:
So, then - can anyone confirm whether these are Northern Bullfinch (seen today at Holy Island) ?

The call they were making was a deep, bellowing 'Honk' (sorry - I'm crap at describing sounds !!)

And - they were similar if not slightly larger than the waxwings that they were in amongst.

Thanks

Alan

Size, call, colouration all point towards Northern Bullie, Alan.

Mike Pennington · Oct 28, 2004

Northern Bullfinch invasion

As anyone reading this will already be aware that there is a record invasion of Bullfinches taking place at the moment. Birds began arriving in Shetland on 10th October and by the end of the month they had certainly reached as far as the Western Isles and Ireland.

A paper on this influx is being compiled for publication in the journal British Birds and I would like to appeal for information to be sent to me at [email protected]

I am interested in collecting data on the following:

• counts and sightings in Britain, especially systematic data, but including unidentified Bullfinches at unusual locations which may be immigrants

• counts of sexes to allow calculation of sex ratios in different areas and at different times

• data from ringed birds, including age and sex

• records or summaries of information from any other countries affected by the invasion

• informed comment on the origins of the invasion and/or the unusual calls given by many individuals

All records will be passed to county recorder where appropriate.

Mike Pennington,
Shetland

Brian Stone · Nov 1, 2004

Sorry to resurrect this thread but I located the reference to the rump on northerns that was nagging at me. It was in the Hayman and Hume Guide to the Birdlife of Britain and Europe. Nominate males are illustrated and described as having a more extensive white rump extending well up onto the back perhaps as far as level with the tips of the greater coverts. pileata is shown with the white stopping about half way along the tertials. I shouldn't think this was just made up so I wonder why it isn't mentioned in other texts (or is it?).

Ghostly Vision · Nov 1, 2004

It does make you wonder whether these little critters are coming from much further east, since this invasion is seemingly unprecedented.

I guess if the birds were coming from somewhere nearby, we would have at least smaller numbers every year.

Funny how we have suh large numbers this one season and yet we never hear about any in other years? A bit like Northern Long-tailed tits last year.

Wonder if the range of N Bullfinch overlaps with McQueen's/Houbara bustard.............

Sean

Mike Pennington · Nov 1, 2004

brianhstone said:
Sorry to resurrect this thread but I located the reference to the rump on northerns that was nagging at me. It was in the Hayman and Hume Guide to the Birdlife of Britain and Europe. Nominate males are illustrated and described as having a more extensive white rump extending well up onto the back perhaps as far as level with the tips of the greater coverts. pileata is shown with the white stopping about half way along the tertials. I shouldn't think this was just made up so I wonder why it isn't mentioned in other texts (or is it?).

Interesting. Thanks for digging this out Brian. I can confirm that Northerns do seem to have large white rumps which frequently extend as high as the top of the tertials BUT while some British birds seem to show white as you describe I've seen photos which don't fit. Now either lots of people take photos of Bullfinches abroad, more Northerns winter here than we think or pileata is very variable. Not sure whcih yet.

Mike Pennington · Nov 1, 2004

Ghostly Vision said:
It does make you wonder whether these little critters are coming from much further east, since this invasion is seemingly unprecedented.

I guess if the birds were coming from somewhere nearby, we would have at least smaller numbers every year.

Funny how we have suh large numbers this one season and yet we never hear about any in other years? A bit like Northern Long-tailed tits last year.

Wonder if the range of N Bullfinch overlaps with McQueen's/Houbara bustard.............

Sean

Hi Sean,

In Shetland we DO get them every year, but there have only been five previous yeras with more than 100, so they're pretty scarce.

The odd calls do indicate that they are coming from far east. Not even the Finns have heard the discordant, tinny call that many birds are giving, so they're coming from further east than Finland (indeed further east than those that usually irrupt into Finland).

Note that there are normal-sounding birds arriving in Britain now as well, which have presuambly just come from Scandinavia, so the odd call is not the only way of finding Northern Bullies.

All records still gratefully received, by the way.

Mike Pennington · Nov 4, 2004

Jane Turner said:
I can't recall an inlux like this.. does it mean we might also be in for a Pine Grosser or two?

They're on their way. On the move in Sweden and the first one reached Scania (the southernmost province) on the 3rd!

jpoyner · Nov 5, 2004

Small flock of Northern Bullfinches seen and heard calling this afternoon in Nethybridge, Highland.
Birds from the Shetland invasion starting to disperse south perhaps?

JP

Northern Bullfinch Identification (1 Viewer)

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