• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Essex Birding (2 Viewers)

I thought my geography was OK, but can someone help clear up the issue of the south-eastern Essex boundary.

I'm guessing you mean south-western, so obviously not as good as you thought! ;)

The 'old' boundary was the River Lea, back in the days when Middlesex existed and Greater London as a county didn't, and I guess that records for 'Metropolitan Essex' are still included in the EBR for the sake of consistency and it has probably got something to do with the Watsonian Vice Counties as well.

If you look on a map the current border runs right through Rainham RSPB, and looks to me like it probably cuts across Wennington Marsh and the eastern end of the tip (i.e. including the circular nature trail from the centre).
The 'official' border crosses the M25 several times, so you'd have to ask Pete why he doesn't include anything inside this.

I did query this with RBA a long time ago and they said that Rainham was on their database as Greater London and so it couldn't be Essex as well.

Clear as mud! :t:
 
SNOWY OWL

Is there any validity in the reports of a Snowy Owl in Essex U.K.? If it is Essex Ontario, it would take a dedicated twitcher to look for it, especially as Point Pelee is rather quiet at this time of year.

Dave

Stewart,

The districts of Western Essex in Greater London are covered by both the EBwS and ELBF. The coordination between the 2 organisations is reasonably good but could be better. The problem districts are in the north of the county, which are very poorly covered.

P.S. If Essex County Cricket, include a town in its juristiction, that is good enough for me.

Dave
 
Last edited:
IIRC the Havering/Thurrock boundary is basically from the enclosed bay just next to the Serin Mound, running north east along that reedbed between the Target Pools and Wennington Marsh. (I wonder if it follows the trail of an old watercourse or something? I know Wennington village used to have a navigable creek up to a quay)

So if you're being all strict with the modern boundaries, anything I've had on the reserve "proper" (pendulines, BW stilt, hoopoe, WT Plover, pec sand, etc) would count for Essex but not London and I suppose the stuff I've only ever had at the west end (water pipit, Y-BW, sabines, black tern, etc) shouldn't go on the Essex list. But then if you're really using modern boundaries should anything seen in unitary authorities like Thurrock and Southend actually count as Essex?

Nah. I'm sticking with the old county boundaries, if only because it's a lot easier at sites like Rainham. And it also means the Egyptian Goose I saw floating on the Lea a few weeks ago is on the county year list.

While we're at it, London (edit: rather, LNHS...) uses a 20mile radius circle centred on St Pauls, though it doesn't say which part of St Pauls, which really makes a difference for a couple of my marginal records from the Orsett area...
 
Last edited:
Neil, Dave, James - Thanks for your responses.

I'd love to say that I am now clearer about this boundary issue - but I fear that the opposite might be the case. However, it has been educational: I had to Google 'Watsonian Vice Counties'!

And, yes - I meant 'south-western' not 'south eastern'. And, I misspelt 'Lea'. How did I get A level Geography?

I think that I'm going to stick with the (old) Essex boundary for the purpose of my records - i.e. the map boundaries contained within (every edition of) the Essex Bird Report.

Stewart

PS I see that the EBwS website states: "EBwS records the bird life in the Watsonian vice counties of North Essex and South Essex. These approximate to the modern county of Essex plus Greater London east of the river Lea"
 
Last edited:
Neil, Dave, James - Thanks for your responses.


PS I see that the EBwS website states: "EBwS records the bird life in the Watsonian vice counties of North Essex and South Essex. These approximate to the modern county of Essex plus Greater London east of the river Lea"

Stewart,

I also prefer Lea to Lee and both alternative spellings are correct. Your quote is a perfect illustration of the situation. Sub-editors of the EBR are instucted to use LEE but this communication uses LEA. Wonderfully inconsistent!

Keep to the traditional counties and stop the gerrymandering! I am more interested in preserving the boundaries of God's own county, Yorkshire. All this Humberside and Cleveland business is heretical nonsense: the Prescott clown excepted.

Dave

P.S. You will find the village of my moniker is AuchEnbowie. Spellings change over time3:).
 
I just use anywhere inside the M25 as London and anywhere with Essex in the postcode as Essex and when places have both Essex in the postcode and are inside the M25 I count them as both,seeing as no one in power can make up their sodding mind
 
So, regarding the Essex boundary issue, it would appear that we are left with two positions – a local ornithological position, and a contemporary political position – each with their own ‘logic’:

1. The local ornithological position

This is position adopted by EBwS and found in their Essex Bird Report. As pointed out in post #3321, an important criterion here is consistency. If trends in bird numbers and seasonal occurrences are to be studied, it is crucial that there are consistencies of definitions and boundaries. Hence, Essex County recording needed to stick with the ‘old’ south-western boundary of the river Lee/Lea. I think that this position is the dominant positions amongst birders keeping (and submitting) their own records and lists.​

2. The contemporary political position

This position adopts the contemporary/modern political definition of the Essex boundary. In post #3323, James has given an outline of how this line cuts through places like Rainham – and you can get a good indication of its meanderings by looking at Streetmap.co.uk and taking the closest zoom. This position is strictly correct in probably all other meanings and uses of boundaries, but it lacks the consistency required of the ‘local ornithological position’.​

When it comes to birders keeping their own lists and records, it is a personal decision and obviously it doesn’t matter what position you take. (Though it may matter when it comes to submission of sightings and records.) However, this said, I think that using Post Codes as a county boundary criteria could prove very misleading. For example, Sudbury, which is well into Suffolk, has a Colchester Post Code! Also, using the M25 as a boundary seems quite arbitrary, as it fits none of the two position described above. As Neil78 points out, the ‘official’ boundary of Essex crosses the M25 several times. (Of course, I understand that the phrase ‘outside the M25’ might be used as loose shorthand.)

Gosh, it’s much easier up here in the north of the county. I was up by Caddewade this morning and I know that if a bird is north of the river Stour it’s in Suffolk, but if it is south of the river it’s in Essex. (If a Diver is swimming mid-stream or an Osprey is flying down the course of the river, I use my discretion - in my favour if I’m Essex listing; shush, don’t tell anyone!)

Stewart
 

I agree that consistency with historical records is probably the most important factor, to ensure you're comparing like with like. I'm not sure it matters that there's a large boundary overlap between the Essex recording area and the LNHS area. And it makes getting black redstart on your Essex list quite easy; I imagine it's pretty difficult away from town.

As for your osprey river thing, can I count the ravens I was watching all winter in Kent? I mean, I was in Essex at the time (well, Thurrock) and they did fly out over the river a fair bit... it's just very hard to work out how far the went!
 
Last edited:
In the old days, Essex used to start at Maryland Point at Stratford. Now if you believe the road signs on the A13, it starts at the Five Bells in Vange. I almost live in London! I'll stick to the old boundaries, thanks.
 
Report via BB on twitter that he's received a reliable report of a glossy ibis showing well at "Baddow Meads Res" in Chelmsford, so that's at least third hand news by the time I'm putting it here.

Can anyone go check? Think I've seen a few people reporting stuff from there on here?
 
Seems a likely place for glossy,shame I didn't see it reported as I drove past an hour or so ago but back home now and got no chance of getting up there by dusk
 
I am a Londoner born and bred, but grew up in Essex: I lived in Rainham for two years which I most definitely considered to be in Essex (that was our address after all - Rainham, Essex RM) and worked in London. I also lived for 9 years in Dagenham, Essex (closer to London than Rainham) and again we definitely thought of ourselves as in Essex. My three children were born in Barking and surrounds and all think of themselves as Essex girls and boys. I was proud to be a Londoner, and as far as we were concerned, London went as far as London postcodes; from our part of London that meant any postcode beginning with an 'E'.
I most definitely think Rainham birds are Essex birds!

For what it's worth...

Debbie
 
It is odd,I consider myself as an Essex chap as I was born in Orsett and lived in corringham till I was 5 and although I moved into London area then,I have always been slightly confused as to what I am supposed to be (although I haven't been too troubled by this. )
If I had been born in a London borough,I would consider myself a Londoner with a bit of Essex in me lol
 
I just use anywhere inside the M25 as London and anywhere with Essex in the postcode as Essex and when places have both Essex in the postcode and are inside the M25 I count them as both,seeing as no one in power can make up their sodding mind

I'm with you Sniper.

Failed history at school and rather be out birding than reading tones on land battles and historic boundaries! Postcodes for me! :t: and I distinctly remember when I lived near Valentines Park Ilford, Essex CCC played there; and preceding postcode IG..... was ESSEX. 8-P

That means a bald eagle pulling a carp from Fairlop Waters will be an awesome Essex lifer! B :)

Bottom line - Your list is YOUR List! :king:
 
I see a decent amount of migrants arriving now in Essex,with decent weather this weekend and more people out birding it looks like a few more will be reported in next couple of days
2 sedge warblers & white throat at heybridge today,plenty of wheatears,sand martins reported as well as a few little ringed plovers
A few yellow wags and willow warblers appearing in the South East and should turn up in Essex next few days,shame I probably won't get much birding done this weekend
 
A good walk through brookes EWT today with Vange with some great results

8 redwing, 2 sparrowhawk, heard a tawny, 1 treecreeper, long tailed tits, coal tits (all pictures suggest this sadly Vange) Red legged partridge, (very clear in the books me thinks) along with mallards on flight.

Coal over Marsh. - I came to this decision due to the evidence of the wing barring in cases where the back of the head was not evident.

Just to help me out, he also let me out of the shit junction I was stuck at, primarily, I hope you enjoyed the walk and the talk!

Steve
 

Attachments

  • ltt.jpg
    ltt.jpg
    210.6 KB · Views: 45
  • tcreep.JPG
    tcreep.JPG
    172.9 KB · Views: 46
  • coal tit.JPG
    coal tit.JPG
    276.9 KB · Views: 63
  • ctit2.JPG
    ctit2.JPG
    236.1 KB · Views: 49
  • ctit3.JPG
    ctit3.JPG
    304.5 KB · Views: 68
I'm being positive,

going to give Abberton a good go tomorrow, around the centre at least anyway, there must be something to find. After some decent pictures as well.

Osprey would be nice, even if it probably would just be a flyover.


Can't think of anywhere else to go anyway. Still need to ask mum for a lift so if that falls down just ignore this post.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top