Larry, you've got the same problem as me (
P validirostris or
P ripleyi?):
http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=1660690&postcount=11
It would indeed be good if James could give his latest thoughts...
It seems that
ripleyi is genetically and vocally distinctive, but with only minor plumage traits (subtle differences in hues of coloration, and extent of white on primary tips).
Richard
Larry and Richard,
James is at the British Bird Fair this weekend so don't expect a reply from him til Sunday eve at the earliest. Below is taken from his
Pteruthius paper, first from the tables:
"PSC treatment (Reddy 2008) and range:
Pteruthius ripleyi western Himalayas; eastwards to eastern Nepal
sensu Reddy (2008); present study suggests eastern boundary uncertain (at least central Nepal but possibly to Arunachal)......Remarks: We include at least central Nepalese populations with this taxon on vocal evidence. Recordings from further east (Bengal, Bhutan, Arunachal) may indicate a zone of overlap or hybridization with
validirostris; more research into taxon boundary and species limits required........
PSC treatment (Reddy 2008) and range:
Pteruthius validirostris eastern Himalayas (Bhutan, north-east India), Chin Hills, Nagaland, Meghalaya [treated as
P.aeralatus validirostris in this paper] Remarks: Strong subspecies; weak vocal divergence from neighboring
ricketti based on small sample size; additional DNA sampling of intervening areas may invalidate current cyt-b break towards other
P. aeralatus taxa, especially neighboring
P. a.ricketti; biological species status remains a possibility."
and, second, from the text:
"
Pteruthius ripleyi (Biswas) (monotypic): This west Himalayan taxon displays a comparatively deep cyt-b divergence of 2.9–4.2% from other taxa. More importantly, its minimum divergence from its only geographic neighbor
P. [f.] validirostris is at 3.2%, which is indicative of species status and atypical for within-species divergences. These high mitochondrial differences are surprising, because
P. ripleyi has not been universally accepted as a valid subspecies in recent treatments (e.g. Rasmussen & Anderton 2005, Collar & Robson 2007). Reddy (2008) listed several minor plumage traits that differentiate
P. ripleyi, but their reproductive relevance must remain controversial.
Vocal data appear to support the deep genetic split, although the geographic sampling regime must be increased to allow for definitive conclusions. Birds in Uttaranchal (India) and Kathmandu (Nepal) have significantly slower songs than those recorded further east in north-east India (Table 4). Although our
geographic sampling is somewhat sparse, this is nevertheless a dramatic vocal break from some of the highest inter- and intra-motif break lengths to some of the lowest values over a comparatively close geographic range.
The western Himalayan song type not only differs in sounding much slower than other taxa, but the notes themselves are much more drawn-out, sometimes display a downward spike before dropping (see Figure 1), and make a more melodious subjective impression.
Two additional samples from unspecified locations in Nepal and one from Bhutan were not available in an appropriate format for quantitative analysis (see above), but were inspected acoustically side by side with the slow Kathmandu recordings and the fast Lava (Bengal) and Eaglenest (Arunachal) recordings (Table 3). All three recordings exhibited a slow pace of motif delivery identical to that in Kathmandu. Additionally, in Eaglenest (Arunachal), only a few kilometers east of the Bhutanese border, JAE has seen White-browed Shrike-Babblers give unrecorded song bouts that sounded identical to the slow melodious song type in a population where the fast song type also occurs (Table 3). There is a potential discrepancy in the fact that birds from Eaglenest and from an unspecified location in Bhutan were identified as being slow, whereas the Lava recording (25 km west of the Bhutan border) and other Eaglenest recordings belonged to the eastern fastpaced song type. Clearly, the Himalayan sampling regime of the
P. flaviscapis complex must be increased in terms of vocal recordings, genetic loci, individuals and geographical sites. The co-occurrence of two quite divergent song types (fast and slow) in the vicinity of Bhutan may suggest that there is character variability, overlap or occasional hybridization between the two taxa in the presumed contact zone, or it may indicate that
our diagnosis of different song types is erroneous and based on low sample size. We think that the existence of two song types (despite their geographic overlap) in conjunction with the deep mitochondrial split tips the
burden of proof onto those who would like to retain the forms
P. ripleyi and
P. [f.] validirostris as part of a single biological species. However, we realize that future data may warrant a modification of our arrangement.
One more issue that requires clarification is the taxonomic re-assignment of birds in central Nepal (Kathmandu) and potentially further east (all the way to Eaglenest) that display the slow melodious song type of
P. ripleyi, despite having been classified as
P. [f.] validirostris. Reddy’s study
(2008) did not include DNA samples from the Himalayas east of westernmost Nepal, so her diagnosis of central and eastern Himalayan birds as
P. [f.] validirostris rests on plumage differences. We suggest that the current boundary between
P.ripleyi and
P. [f.] validirostris is unclear but certainly much further east than suggested by Reddy (2008). This boundary needs to be re-assessed based on increased genetic and acoustic sampling in the future. If such future studies corroborate the preliminary findings of our limited vocal data,
P. ripleyi may extend far into the central or even eastern Himalayas. As the type locality of
P. [f.] validirostris is outside the Himalayas (Nagaland, north-eastern India), this would be a taxonomically coherent treatment."
Hope this helps.
Shaun
