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"Immersion" - What Price Glory?

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Old Tuesday 2nd January 2018, 22:31   #26
Stephen Mark
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If you want 0 CA then you need a Kowa Genesis in 8.5x44 or the 10.5. They are more than a thousand but half a pair of SF's and they balance so well the weight doesn't feel like the listed weight. I love my SF's but that much FOV can be distracting. I find that if I really want to concentrate on something the Kowas serve me better. Things like this are why we all HAVE to have more then one pair bins or more than two or more than three well you get the idea.
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Old Tuesday 2nd January 2018, 23:33   #27
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Thanks Steve. Through research somewhere I seem to recall that the Genesis was labled as globe effect/rolling ball. Is that an urban bin myth?
The Trinovid HD 10X42/Conquest 10X40/Habicht 10X40 are full blown pincushion. More than I care to view, but not as bothersome as globe effect. Too much PC only bugs me in a fast pan/scan.

I enjoy something in the middle w/least amount of PC required to prevent globe effect. Yet, all I ever read is RB or PC. I understand that people perceive RB, or not, differently. I suppose various degrees could be interpreted differently as well.

If Swarovision were -10 & Habicht/Conquest I listed were 10 i'd like a -3 to -5. It's a shame bins aren't listed by how much PC is incorporated in the view.
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Old Wednesday 3rd January 2018, 10:13   #28
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I have never read of Kowa Genesis having rolling balls or globes and I agree that if you want alpha level correction of CA but at well below alpha prices, then Kowa's Genesises (Genesi?) are the way to go. If you want an incremental step better than Genesis then Zeiss's FL 8x32 is top dog and nice and bright with it.

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Old Thursday 4th January 2018, 00:35   #29
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Never know I might give 'em a go. I do see the globe effect in some bins & one riflescope, yet that doesn't imply that I would see it in every bin alleged to possess RB.

http://www.opticstalk.com/anyone-use...opic36884.html

I had a 10.5x44 Genesis for a while too, about 3 years ago. The glass is fantastic, within a natsazz of anything made, but I have a tendency to see the dreaded "rolling ball" view, and it was noticeable in my pair of Genesis. They are extremely well built too.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=287315

Sadly, as much as I wanted to like the Kowas, especially given their outstanding strengths – small size, light weight, smooth focusing knob etc, there was one important area where they fell woefully short for me. Their weird distortion when panning – i.e. the dreaded rolling ball – was marginally north of borderline acceptable for me. True, it’s only a tiny bit worse than Swarovski’s 8x32SV. But while I could easily see this weakness in the latter, it wasn’t bad enough to bother me and I could easily live with them considering their other outstanding attributes. As much as I tried, I could only live with the Kowas if I only looked at stationary objects.
-

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=226304
Your BFF Brocknrollin'ball: contemplating buying a bin that is known to cause "rolling ball," such as a Nikon HGL, SV EL, Kowa Genesis, etc.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=336311
Kowa Genesis 8x33: Troubador's Review - BirdForum
www.birdforum.net › ... › Binoculars › Kowa
Dec 11, 2016 - I found panning to be quite free from rolling ball despite it being reported by some, but I seem to be one of those relatively unaffected by RB so those who suffer from it should check for this.
--
Granted most are very old posts. Perhaps Kowa has tweaked their formula over the years. Hard to say w/o taking a peek.
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Last edited by Nixterdemus : Thursday 4th January 2018 at 01:02.
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Old Thursday 4th January 2018, 01:24   #30
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That's really really weird this is the first I've head of rolling ball in a Kowa Of course I have always suspected Brock of living in his own private universe. I used my Kowas (still do some despite having the SF's) and have never seen Rolling Ball in either my 8.5s or my 10.5s and this from some one who if I was forced to look thru a pair of Swaro FLs would throw up my breakfast from last month. I see it in the Swaros the minute I pick one up except the 12X50s and they may have changed those in the last year or so. Im tempted to think that RB is from a miss wired brain which would apply to me but the whole concept seems strange.
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Old Thursday 4th January 2018, 01:43   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Mark View Post
Nix
That's really really weird this is the first I've head of rolling ball in a Kowa Of course I have always suspected Brock of living in his own private universe. I used my Kowas (still do some despite having the SF's) and have never seen Rolling Ball in either my 8.5s or my 10.5s and this from some one who if I was forced to look thru a pair of Swaro FLs would throw up my breakfast from last month. I see it in the Swaros the minute I pick one up except the 12X50s and they may have changed those in the last year or so. Im tempted to think that RB is from a miss wired brain which would apply to me but the whole concept seems strange.
Steve
When I first got my 10X42 EL SV I saw heavy rolling ball, but evidently I have learned to ignore it, because it either has disappeared or ceased to bother me. I'm not sure which. (I guess they are the same thing)
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Old Thursday 4th January 2018, 17:01   #32
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Brock was enthusiastic in some of his views at times bordering on religious zeal.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=246246
Blast from the past, 14pgs, of RB from 5 yr prior.

Perhaps the Kowa, early models or not, were somehow branded as part of the usual suspects at the height of RD/AMD/PC/Globe Effect, Rolling Ball discussion.
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Old Thursday 4th January 2018, 17:09   #33
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Nix, post 29,

A Genesis, lightweight and small sized??
Are we talking about the same bin here?

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Old Thursday 4th January 2018, 19:24   #34
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I don't know as I only copied part whilst providing the link. I suppose he meant the 8X33 were small/light in comparision to the larger size.
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Old Thursday 4th January 2018, 19:51   #35
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I don't know as I only copied part whilst providing the link. I suppose he meant the 8X33 were small/light in comparision to the larger size.
Which all 32s are compared to 42s etc.

Now I understand you copied the link.

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Old Friday 5th January 2018, 08:14   #36
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Originally Posted by Nixterdemus View Post
Kowa Genesis 8x33: Troubador's Review - BirdForum

Dec 11, 2016 - I found panning to be quite free from rolling ball despite it being reported by some, but I seem to be one of those relatively unaffected by RB so those who suffer from it should check for this.
Thats me you are quoting there Nixter so I had heard of this and since then have totally forgotten it. My apologies.

Still, RB is such a personal thing that the only way you can find out if you will see it in a particular model is to try them out for yourself, and if possible, not just for half an hour, as it seems some folks 'accommodate' to it and then don't see it anymore.

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Old Saturday 6th January 2018, 18:52   #37
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I feel that using binoculars without glasses/spectacles, or using a binocular that requires you to observe without (short eye relief) automatically makes the view more immersive. Light weight and easy handling also help achieve that sensation of having the device disappear before your eyes. The Swarovski 8x56 I tried at Birdfair gave me the most outstanding view I have yet experienced through a binocular but I was always conscious of its weight and bulk - same goes for large porros I have tried.
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Old Sunday 7th January 2018, 07:55   #38
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I suspect you are right, but with my myopia i would not know where to point the bins: I'd be sunk - or at least, deeply immersed.
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Old Sunday 7th January 2018, 08:09   #39
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Originally Posted by Nixterdemus View Post
Brock was enthusiastic in some of his views at times bordering on religious zeal.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=246246
Blast from the past, 14pgs, of RB from 5 yr prior.

Perhaps the Kowa, early models or not, were somehow branded as part of the usual suspects at the height of RD/AMD/PC/Globe Effect, Rolling Ball discussion.
Ha, I had forgot all that. The power of suggestion!!
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