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About the name of Passerina rositae (1 Viewer)

ElChivizcoyo

ElChivizcoyo

Active member
Hello
I'm a birdwatcher (and biology student) from Mexico, and I don't know if this post must be here, but this is the best forum that I could find.
I'm very intrigued about the origin of Passerina rositae species name, I know that this Passerina is named after Francis Sumichrast's wife, but I can't get biographical information about her, or her influence in Sumichrast's work.

If someone have information of this, please share it with me.


Thank you
 
"ElChivizcoyo", this is apparently all we´ve got this far!
rositae
Rosita Sumichrast (fl. 1882) wife of Swiss naturalist François Sumichrast resident in Mexico (Passerina).
Click to expand...
Sorry to be of no help!

Anyone else know more?

Björn

PS. That is; except for what we´ve been dealing with earlier; here.
--
 
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I'm afraid I can't really help much more either.
I don't know what Google allows to see from Mexico but, just in case, Boucard's biographical note in Bull. Soc. Zool. France, cited by Mark:
mb1848 said:
https://books.google.com/books?id=IsAEAAAAQAAJ&dq=Jean+François+Sumichrast&source=gbs_navlinks_s . Page 308.
...dediee par M. Lawrence a sa femme et a sa fille ainee.
Click to expand...
...can also be read [here]. In this text, it is said that they married in "Quchitan" (Oaxaca) (=Juchitán?) on 30 Aug 1870.
Most of this note was also some times later translated into Spanish and published in La Naturaleza: [here]. (But the sentence about their marriage was lost in the translation process.)

Phillips & Rook 1965 [pdf]:
A. L. Francois Sumichrast settled down and married in the Hacienda Santa Efigenia, near Tapanatepec.
Click to expand...
This is where they lived (and the type locality of a number of species discovered by Sumichrast). Roughly 100km to the E of Juchitán de Zaragoza.
 
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Thank you all!

This data will be very useful for me, I'm trying to figure it out this particular story about the name of the Rosita's Bunting

Taphrospilus: about Rafael Montes de Oca, maybe I could obtain more information in the local register (because i live in the born city of Montes de Oca)
 
I find it a bit odd that this "Rosita", Mrs. Sumichrast, is nowhere, absolutely nowhere, to be found (by me at least), and that made me think ... as "Rosita" is a not uncommon diminutive form of Rosa ("little Rosa"), that this supposed and from the very start assumed "name" (never written either way, not in the OD nor in any other contemporary texts), maybe, possibly, could be Mr. Sumichrast's tender nick-name for his "little Rose" and this could have been what he called her, also when spoken or writing to George Lawrence as well... however searching for Rosa + Sumichrast doesn´t help much (believe me I´ve tried) ... thereby; " "ElChivizcoyo", you ought to know (or anyone else with knowledge of) the Mexican name vs nick-name traditions, of what other names is likely to be altered into "Rosita"?

Yes, I know ... a wild goose-chase, but when nothing´s left to try, why not give it a go? ;)

Any suggestions on female names that could have ben turned into "Rosita"
--
 
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Well, in spanish the diminutive of Rosa is undobutedly "Rosita" and there isn't any other (at least in spanish, I think) name with this diminutive, but I'm pretty sure that Rosa was te original name of Sumichrast's wife.

Also I found another name: Rosalía (I found it in french) that could fit with the diminutive "Rosita" and, in fact, existed one Rosalía: Rosalía Nivon, daughter of Antonie Nivon, owner of Hacienda Santa Efigenia in the late XIX century (that could match with Sumichrast's residence there).

I've tried to find this match between Rosa/Rosalía + Sumichrast too in some historical information and I haven't any significative result. Maybe due to a less significant effort to record this "secondary characters" (and probably we would know nothing about her if she wasn't named like a bird) however, I think that more data could be found in the local archives, so, I need to travel (and of course, finally see Rosita's Bunting) |:D|


by the way: this searching it's becoming more interesting that I thought.
 
Good one finding Rosalía née Nivon.

As Sumichrast apparently married at "Hacienda Santa Efigenia" (here) I think she could be a highly likely candidate!

Good luck finding the last piecies definately linking her to Mr. Sumichrast.

Please keep us updated on whatever you find.

Björn

PS. Not much left of the old hacienda today! Here.

PPS. Good luck also on finding the Bunting.
--
 
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I give it for what it's worth, but in The Thistle and the Rose, a book by Catherine Nixon Cooke about the Nivon family, it is suggested [here] that Rosalía was already married by 1861: if correct, this is inconsistent with Boucard's assertion that Sumichrast's marriage was in 1870.
On the other hand, this date is, in any case, consistent with the age Boucard attributed in 1884 to Sumichrast's eldest dautghter:
Il laisse une veuve et trois filles âgées aujourd'hui de treize, dix et quatre ans.
Click to expand...
"He leaves a widow and three daughters, today aged thirteen, ten and four." IOW, the eldest daughter would be born 1871, thus during the year following the marriage.


Some info is evidently present on the genealogy websites, but it is messy and uneasy to trace. For instance, these are quite likely to concern them, I think:
  • Ancestry.com, [here], records a Rosa "Nives", said (you need to hover your mouse over 'View record' to see it) to have been married in Oaxaca to a Francisco "Sumchret". They presumably have the act scanned, but you can't see it without becoming a member.
  • MyHeritage.com, [here], records a Francisco "Sumichmit", born to George and Victoria Antonieta "Sumichmet", who married a Rosa "Sumichmit", with whom he had a daughter, born 1871, baptised in Mexico and named Rosa Antonia Victoria "Sumichmit Nivon". Said Rosa "Sumichmit", [here], was born to Antonio Nivón and Anastasia Nivón; she had 11 siblings, including Luisa Rey and Josefina Del Puerto... Again you can't see more without being a member.

There is a list of the descendants of Jean Antoine Frédéric "Antonio" Nivon [here] (below the pictures that are gone); ten children, Rosalía the eldest one, no Rosa/Rosita. No guarantee that the list is complete either, of course.
 
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l_raty said:
I give it for what it's worth, but in The Thistle and the Rose, a book by Catherine Nixon Cooke about the Nivon family, it is suggested that Rosalía was already married by 1861: if correct, this is inconsistent with Boucard's assertion that Sumichrast's marriage was in 1870.
On the other hand, this date is, in any case, consistent with the age Boucard attributed in 1884 to Sumichrast's eldest dautghter:
Click to expand...

Interesting news!

I contacted with a Nivon family alive member asking for information, and this were the results:


-Indeed, Sumichrast married in 1870 (as Boucard's declares) with Rosalía Nivon, so this is the most probably, almost certainly, candidate to be that "Rosita" who inspired the name of Passerina rositae

-this woman, Rosalía Nivon, married with a Oaxacan yeoman (I don't know if this is the correct word) in 1861, but she was divorced at Sumichrast's arrival, so both dates are correct, but with different persons
 
Wow! This far I would dare to suggest ...

• Rose-bellied Bunting Passerina rositae LAWRENCE 1874 (OD in Post #3) as "Cyanospiza rositæ" a k a Rosita's Bunting or as the "Sumichrast Rosita" ... alt. rositafink (in Swedish!)
= the Mexican Rosalía Nivon (ca. 1840–1891), in the Family a k a "Rosita", wife of Swiss naturalist François Sumichrast (1828–1882).

Born (probably at Santo Domingo, Zanatepec) in about 1840, eldest daughter of Jean Antoine "Antonio" Frédéric Nivon (of French Heritage) and Anastasia Fuentes ... married (i.e. her second marriage) to François "Francisco" Sumichrast 30 August 1870, at Hacienda Santa Efigenia, Zanatepec, Oaxaca, Mexico ... with whom she had three daughters ... probably remarried again (for the third time) to a a Mr. Gout (?) ... and, either way, she died on New Years Eve 1891.

Not bad, quite a team effort! :t:

Don´t hesitate to prove me, us wrong!
---
 
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Well done, ElChivizcoyo and Björn, re rositae. The Key has been updated accordingly. ElChivizcoyo, if you can give me your proper name I will gladly add it to the acknowledgements.
All serenity.
James
 
Calalp said:
Wow! This far I would dare to suggest ...

• Rose-bellied Bunting Passerina rositae LAWRENCE 1874 (OD in Post #3) as "Cyanospiza rositæ" a k a Rosita's Bunting or as the "Sumichrast Rosita" ... alt. rositafink (in Swedish!)
= the Mexican Rosalía Nivon (ca. 1840–1891), in the Family a k a "Rosita", wife of Swiss naturalist François Sumichrast (1828–1882).

Born (probably at Santo Domingo, Zanatepec) in about 1840, eldest daughter of Jean Antoine "Antonio" Frédéric Nivon (of French Heritage) and Anastasia Fuentes ... married (i.e. her second marriage) to François "Francisco" Sumichrast 30 August 1870, at Hacienda Santa Efigenia, Zanatepec, Oaxaca, Mexico ... with whom she had three daughters ... probably remarried again (for the third time) to a a Mr. Gout (?) ... and, either way, she died on New Years Eve 1891.

Not bad, quite a team effort! :t:

Don´t hesitate to prove me, us wrong!
---
Click to expand...

Mr. Leopold Gout was her first husband

My name, for the acknowledgments, is José Alberto Lobato García.

I'm about to start to write a brief article about this somwhere... thank you all!
 
Then "José Alberto Lobato García" it is, and will be, also in my MS ...

Ok, so Mr. Gout was husband No. 1, thanks, then probably no third ditto.

James Jobling said:
Well done, ElChivizcoyo and Björn, re rositae. ...
Click to expand...
Thanks, James, but my part was only secondary, "ElChivizcoyo" started this thread and Laurent found most of the clues :t: . Without them I would still be stuck with simply "Rosita" (on my Swedish rositafink). I just reasoned, did the math and concluded whatever poped up.

José (if that´s the one to use?), please keep us updated on whatever you find. Until now Mr. Sumichrast's wife was (in most parts) all unknown.

Did you find "Rosita's" birth as well?

Björn

PS.Looking forward to that article of yours. Good look with that one.
Mine (on all the Swedish Common Bird names) is still years away.
--
 
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Just a couple of additional details:
If Leopold(o) Gout was her first husband, then it looks like she had at least one son with him -- Leopoldo Gout Nivón, 1863 - 1912/1913 (I've seen both dates).
To Sumichrast, she gave four daughters, not three (but the third one, which Boucard says was worshipped by her father, died a few hours after him and from the same disease; thus only three were left in 1884).

(PS - If this has not changed, it should be Alberto, not José -- see [here] ;))
 
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I couldn't find anything about Rosita's Birth yet, but I received this portrait of an old Rosita, maybe a few years before his death
 

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Holá Alberto, [+ lectoribus salutem]
Allow me to place a little remark to your text, which might make it somewhat more understandable to some co-members of this subforum. In Spanish the possessive pronoun is adapted to the noun to which it belongs, not to the subject of the sentence. So, if you say: a few years before her death, a Spanish speaker has to "think English". When saying such a thing in Spanish, there is no difference: su muerte, but in English and German and Dutch and (I suppose) Swedish the pronoun "looks back" to the subject: his death for a man, her death for a woman. This is only for the third person: he, she, it, in English: his, her, its; for the other persons there is no difference. French is even more complicated than Spanish, because of the congruency between possessive pronoun and the thing possessed, like in Spanish, but besides split (if not before a vowel!) for masculine and feminine words.
Who cares about grammar, nowadays? Well, I do, for one. I am struggling with Ixos susanii right now; there is a source which says, in Danish: "efter Susan Müller, gift med Salomon Müller (1804-1863)". HBW Alive Key says: no dedication given (by Bonaparte). If there was a Susan connected to Salomon Müller (rather unusual, this name, unless she was English) it would be highly unappropriate to coin a name susanii in honour of any woman of that name . . . Another of those obscure features . . .
Un saludo cordial,
Jan van der Brugge
 
What is the gender of the word Ixos? I have about 0.1% of the classical training that some other people here has. However, I am Danish, and the words you quote seems to indicate that this name is for that woman. Could it be that the person naming the species thought that the gender of the second part had to be given by the first part, or do I not understand what you are talking about?

By the way, could it be that the father of Susan was a sailor and that he named her for his favored woman he met in a British harbor? Stranger things have happened.

Niels
 
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