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Sparrow (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter searobin
- Start date
birdpotter
Well-known member
I really want to see what anyone else thinks of this bird. it could be a Savannah, but do you think its chest and belly are a little too reddish for it to be one?
The only other bird I can find that it closely resembles is a Grasshopper Sparrow...but I could be missing something, as usual.
I had a resident Seaside Sparrow in my 'backyard' when I lived in NJ. It was great, but I never got any shots of it, strangely enough.
Best
Elizabeth
The only other bird I can find that it closely resembles is a Grasshopper Sparrow...but I could be missing something, as usual.
I had a resident Seaside Sparrow in my 'backyard' when I lived in NJ. It was great, but I never got any shots of it, strangely enough.
Best
Elizabeth
birdpotter
Well-known member
I also thought Sharp-tailed, but this bird has a definite, if not very well pronounced, median stripe.
prairiemerlin
registered guy
Yes, this is definitly a Sharp-tailed Sparrow.
Larry Lade
Moderator
I believe this is a juvenile Grasshopper Sparrow, the young of this species do show streaking on the breast as the bird in the photo.
prairiemerlin
registered guy
Wan2caTanager
Well-known member
I agree with everyone else that this is definitely an Ammodramus sparrow.
I disagree that it is a Sharp-tailed Sparrow, for these reasons:
1) No broad gray nape.
2) No whitish or gray streaks on back
3) The median stripe
4) Too rounded of head
5) The bill looks too stout
I don't believe it is a juvenile Grasshopper Sparrow for these reasons:
1) Where is the white eye ring?
2) The facial color is too bright and too extensive -- Grasshopper should have a gray supercilium stripe behind the eye, as well as grayish behind the auriculars.
3) The bill isn't pink
4) The median stripe should be brighter
5) The upper mantle should have more gray tones
I am leaning strongly towards Le Conte's Sparrow, likely juvenile, for these reasons:
1) Nape colors now look good
2) Supercilium stripe behind eye and area behind auriculars are supposed to be bright
3) Palish grayish lores and auriculars
4) There is no eye ring
5) The flank is streaked all the way down to the undertail coverts, and almost down to the top of the leg -- with crisp blackish streaks
6) The back to me looks like it could be interpreted as pale striping -- but buffy, not whitish or blackish against gray or black
7) Bill size, shape and color, and head appearance now OK
I do realize that Le Conte's would be quite uncommon for New Jersey. But, location is not quite everything...
I disagree that it is a Sharp-tailed Sparrow, for these reasons:
1) No broad gray nape.
2) No whitish or gray streaks on back
3) The median stripe
4) Too rounded of head
5) The bill looks too stout
I don't believe it is a juvenile Grasshopper Sparrow for these reasons:
1) Where is the white eye ring?
2) The facial color is too bright and too extensive -- Grasshopper should have a gray supercilium stripe behind the eye, as well as grayish behind the auriculars.
3) The bill isn't pink
4) The median stripe should be brighter
5) The upper mantle should have more gray tones
I am leaning strongly towards Le Conte's Sparrow, likely juvenile, for these reasons:
1) Nape colors now look good
2) Supercilium stripe behind eye and area behind auriculars are supposed to be bright
3) Palish grayish lores and auriculars
4) There is no eye ring
5) The flank is streaked all the way down to the undertail coverts, and almost down to the top of the leg -- with crisp blackish streaks
6) The back to me looks like it could be interpreted as pale striping -- but buffy, not whitish or blackish against gray or black
7) Bill size, shape and color, and head appearance now OK
I do realize that Le Conte's would be quite uncommon for New Jersey. But, location is not quite everything...
After carefully looking at the degree of variation in the linked photos below of juvenile Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed Sparrows, I am changing from leaning Le Conte's (despite location), to undecided between those two -- but still firmly not in the Grasshopper camp.
http://www.featheredfotos.com/spppages/songbirds/salt marsh sts.html
There is a great deal of resemblence, but I still have issues with the finer details, some of which I listed above. The problem with juveniles of the same North American sparrow genus, is that they can look so much alike that if you do give up on the details, you might as well give up on calling it identification altogether, and just say likely so-and-so based on location, IMHO. Given that Le Conte's (at the extremes) breed in Eastern Quebec, and winters in Eastern South Carolina, I also wonder if the scarcity of New Jersey records has at least a little to do with how few birders are really "into" details of shy little brown birds who prefer tall grass.
Interesting to note that the Cornell site that Wan2caTanager links to, lists Le Conte's as a similar species to Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed, and recommends looking to the median stripe, nape, and size of the facial gray patch to tell the difference. Two out of three favor Le Conte's in the subject bird, with the faint nape striping now neutral, after closely looking at the juvenile Saltmarsh's in the link above. Plumage wise it is less of a stretch to make it Le Conte's, location wise less of a stretch to make it Saltmarsh Sharp-tail, call it a toss-up... :bounce:
http://www.featheredfotos.com/spppages/songbirds/salt marsh sts.html
There is a great deal of resemblence, but I still have issues with the finer details, some of which I listed above. The problem with juveniles of the same North American sparrow genus, is that they can look so much alike that if you do give up on the details, you might as well give up on calling it identification altogether, and just say likely so-and-so based on location, IMHO. Given that Le Conte's (at the extremes) breed in Eastern Quebec, and winters in Eastern South Carolina, I also wonder if the scarcity of New Jersey records has at least a little to do with how few birders are really "into" details of shy little brown birds who prefer tall grass.
Interesting to note that the Cornell site that Wan2caTanager links to, lists Le Conte's as a similar species to Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed, and recommends looking to the median stripe, nape, and size of the facial gray patch to tell the difference. Two out of three favor Le Conte's in the subject bird, with the faint nape striping now neutral, after closely looking at the juvenile Saltmarsh's in the link above. Plumage wise it is less of a stretch to make it Le Conte's, location wise less of a stretch to make it Saltmarsh Sharp-tail, call it a toss-up... :bounce:
Longspur23
Well-known member
Perhaps Nelson's Sharp-tailed is as rare as Le Conte's in NJ, but I'm pretty certain that Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed is a common species in NJ. Nelson's Sharp-tailed and Le Conte's are both rare for NJ.searobin said:
searobin said:
Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed is a fairly common breeding species (they are only limited by the fact that so much habitat on the east coast has been destroyed over the years - people building their shoreline home) but find a decent salt marsh and you should always find a few birds around. As Longspur says Nelson's is harder to find (breeds mainly in the interior and north), but should be seen with regularity during migration by experienced birders. LeConte's is a major rarity - probably handfuls of birds reported from the north east over the last ten years - the last one in NJ according to archives was 2003 (other NJ records since 95: Oct 97, Oct 98, Oct 99, Oct 2000)
Luke
Last edited:
Thayeri said:
I agree that there are many birders who are not very proficient with little brown jobs and I am sure that there are plenty of birds not identified in migration due to lack of skills and equally lack of coverage. However NJ is a very popular place for travelling birders and also boasts a high number of excellent local birders. Both would lead me to think that coverage there (with the popularity of Cape May in fall) is excellent. I would think that the handful of reports owes more to the lack of LeConte's moving through the state than lack of ID skills. CT is a small state and fairly well covered by decent birders too and yet the last confirmed sighting was I think 10 years ago (LeConte's is one of those birds you joke about wanting to find here on a fall walk).
I often hear the birds have wings and can turn up anywhere line, but birds tend to wander for specific reasons and in patterns: Overshoots in migration. Reverse Migration. Weather patterns pushing birds further east or west of their usual migratory course. Post or non-breeding birds wandering etc etc. Individual species also have a propensity for wandering. The idea of a juvie LeContes already being on the move and wandering from it's migratory route to NJ in August doesn't strike me as likely. Plus add up what you have with the pictures and to me there is nothing to rule out a juvie Saltmarsh Sharp-tailed.
Luke
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