Scarletmacawdad
Well-known member
Friends - I have a Manfrotto MVH500AH and 190!Go head / tripod combo in the shopping cart for this new little scope, but would love your thoughts on what has worked and what hasn't - and why.
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Tripod/head combo for Swaro ATS 65 (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Scarletmacawdad
- Start date
The MVH500AH is overkill. I'd use the 128RC, the ATS foot fits directly into it. No plate needed.
No experience with 190!Go.
No experience with 190!Go.
Scarletmacawdad
Well-known member
Hi,
the tiltable center column of the 190!Go tripod is a gimmick I could live without (unless I put a camera on it and want to get some creative shots). For use with a scope it will only reduce stability.
I own a predecessor of the Velbon Geo N535 which works beautifully under my TSN-3 and a 500AH.
If you don't want to splurge on carbon fiber, sth like the Sherpa 5350D or 5370D will probably work - if you're not very tall, you might be able to go one step lower with 4350D or 4370D.
In general my rules of thumb are:
- max load = double the actual load of head and scope
- high enough so you can observe comfortably with the center column down or mostly so. A fully extended center column is not great for stability.
- 3 leg sections = less lugs = more stable
- twist lugs preferred if available - less things to go wrong
- If you don't want to use a scopack or mulepack, a hook to put some weight under the center column might come in handy.
Since the 128RC and the 500AH weight the same, I'd always go for the 500AH with counterbalance and a long plate in order to properly balance your scope. I own both and the 128RC is less stable and less smooth.
Joachim
the tiltable center column of the 190!Go tripod is a gimmick I could live without (unless I put a camera on it and want to get some creative shots). For use with a scope it will only reduce stability.
I own a predecessor of the Velbon Geo N535 which works beautifully under my TSN-3 and a 500AH.
If you don't want to splurge on carbon fiber, sth like the Sherpa 5350D or 5370D will probably work - if you're not very tall, you might be able to go one step lower with 4350D or 4370D.
In general my rules of thumb are:
- max load = double the actual load of head and scope
- high enough so you can observe comfortably with the center column down or mostly so. A fully extended center column is not great for stability.
- 3 leg sections = less lugs = more stable
- twist lugs preferred if available - less things to go wrong
- If you don't want to use a scopack or mulepack, a hook to put some weight under the center column might come in handy.
Since the 128RC and the 500AH weight the same, I'd always go for the 500AH with counterbalance and a long plate in order to properly balance your scope. I own both and the 128RC is less stable and less smooth.
Joachim
Boogieshrew
Well-known member
Scarletmacawdad
Well-known member
The ATS foot should fit directly into the 128RC head WITHOUT the plate.
By far the best design element of the ATS scopes.
By far the best design element of the ATS scopes.
Scarletmacawdad
Well-known member
Thank you again. What about mating the 500AH to the ATS foot? That requires an adapter right?
AFAIK, all heads come with a mounting plate. HOWEVER, not needing a mounting plate provides a MUCH MORE stable view. The interface of the mounting plate with scopes & cameras is often the weakest part of the whole system when it comes to providing a stable view.
AS I SAID EARLIER, Swarovski's designing the ATS foot to fit directly into the widely used 128RC is the best design element of the scope.
AS I SAID EARLIER, Swarovski's designing the ATS foot to fit directly into the widely used 128RC is the best design element of the scope.
The 500AH comes with a long plate which will be attached to the foot with the included 1/4" screw.
Joachim
I'd get the Induro CLT103. Its carbon fiber and 3 sections. You probably want to check the max height though. I'm on the short side and use it with an angled Opticron 60mm, so a shorter max ht is not a problem.
Scarletmacawdad
Well-known member
Thanks all.
I had the ATS 65 out today mated to a Sirui VA-5 and the vibration dampening was terrible. Ruined the experience. The eye relief on the 25-50 with my glasses was also intolerable.
I'm returning the lens and getting a 30x fixed.
But the head situation is depressing.
I've read attaching an ATS 65 to an 128RC - while eliminating the plate - is back heavy and requires one to crank down the altitude clamp.
Any further thoughts? Does the Swaro compact head solve this back heavy issue?
I had the ATS 65 out today mated to a Sirui VA-5 and the vibration dampening was terrible. Ruined the experience. The eye relief on the 25-50 with my glasses was also intolerable.
I'm returning the lens and getting a 30x fixed.
But the head situation is depressing.
I've read attaching an ATS 65 to an 128RC - while eliminating the plate - is back heavy and requires one to crank down the altitude clamp.
Any further thoughts? Does the Swaro compact head solve this back heavy issue?
wdc
Well-known member
What tripod were you using? I just got a Sirui VA-5, and my scope (Televid 65) is coming on Monday. I have yet to field test this setup with a 1541 Gitzo that I already own. I'm beginning to suspect that anything other than no breeze might be a problem, but we'll see. I did also order a longer plate, just in case I have balance problems with the scope.
Sorry to hear about all your issues, including eye relief. That's no fun, and is not the fault of the tripod or the mount. So... with Binocs, its all in one object, but with a scope, its tripod, head, eyepiece, scope. .. Many more variables!
Egad.
-B.
Scarletmacawdad
Well-known member
It was the center column. I'm using a Sirui W-1204 - way overkill. But you can't extend the center column. I also used an extra long plate to balance the scope, but extended so far out over the head the vibrations were amplified.
I put the column down, used the stock plate, tolerated a bit of tilting backward by tightening the altitude a bit, and it is now terrific.
Apologies if I posted before spending enough time. This head is fantastic for the ATS 65.
I was tracking a harrier with no jitters for a few minutes today while she hunted.
I put the column down, used the stock plate, tolerated a bit of tilting backward by tightening the altitude a bit, and it is now terrific.
Apologies if I posted before spending enough time. This head is fantastic for the ATS 65.
I was tracking a harrier with no jitters for a few minutes today while she hunted.
I'm using the Sirui VA5 with an ATS65, and it is the best of the lightweight heads i've used. The tripod is a Benro carbon fibre with three-part legs. Not sure of the model, but think it might have been superseded, as i bought it in a clearance.
For me, the whole advantage of the ATS65 is in the weight, providing a highly mobile and easy-to-travel-with setup (I have an altogether heavier rig for when it is necessary). Of course, if it is your only rig, you may prefer to go heavier than i have to cover all the eventualities. The 500 or the 128 heads would seem a little excessive for me.
For me, the whole advantage of the ATS65 is in the weight, providing a highly mobile and easy-to-travel-with setup (I have an altogether heavier rig for when it is necessary). Of course, if it is your only rig, you may prefer to go heavier than i have to cover all the eventualities. The 500 or the 128 heads would seem a little excessive for me.
Scarletmacawdad
Well-known member
I have a few more days under my belt with the Sirui VA5 and a terrific tripod and couldn't be happier. I have no dampening problems and the action is completely smooth. Terrifically suited to this instrument.
Anybody think it could handle an ~85mm?
Bill, I wonder if you could finally test your tripod setup with the 65 Televid.
I'm also interested in the subject tripod/head for smallish scopes. One of the biggest assets of the ATS 65 (or many other 60-65 for that matter) is its size and weight, so it seems logical to look for a combination of tripod and head that can take advantage of those characteristics (and make the ATS virtues "shine" on treks and walks).
At the moment I have an Opticron MM3ED-60 which is a little short of 1 kg, depending on the eyepiece. I'm using a Vanguard VEO 235 AP, with a Velbon head (a very light one, I can't remember the model), but I'm looking to upgrade to an ATS-65. However, if I need to "beef up" the tripod/head setup, then my question would be why not go for the ATS-80, which is reasonably light for a 80 mm scope.
wdc
Well-known member
Hi Yarelli, I've gone out birding with the scope 4 times, and carried it a few miles each time.
It has not been in any kind of a breeze, so in some respects just not put to the test. I'm fine with the weight. I like the head... size, smoothness of motion. There's a few quirks about where certain levers are with regard to range of motion.
The tripod is a 1541 Gitzo Mountaineer. I've had it about 6 years, and use it to mount a pochade box on for outdoor landscape painting. Its been used a lot. For a 65mm scope, I would say one could probably do better for stability. Damping time, rapping the tripod legs, or the scope body, or the pan arm seems to be well over a second.
I just got an FLM CP30-S4 II, based on the Center column tripod rankings/weight and price... Took it out this morning briefly before work, and wasn't too impressed with improved damping. I'm going to compare a few more times, and probably send it back. I am pondering the RRS TVC 23...
I'm not sure what to expect from such lightweight tripods, combined with magnification.
As for the scope, the 65 Televid is really comfortable from 25-40x, after that the FOV shrinks quickly, and from 40-50x it gets noticeably darker, and is not wholly parfocal for me, wearing glasses. I can focus it back to sharpness, but also have noticed the unsteady air at the higher mag, so one can see the real world limitations these devices have to function in.
I've had some great views with the setup, and it is easy to carry. 35x is a really useful magnification, especially as an extension from 8x-10x binoculars. In addition, viewing with a tripod is certainly more immersive and relaxing at times.
The head works well, and handles the weight of the scope fine. It is easier to find things to criticize about the tripod or the zoom eyepiece. My one nit to pick on the head is that the azimuth lock lever can collide/get blocked when the scope is pointing towards zenith. In fact, the scope cannot point all the way to zenith because of the way it is designed. So, forget looking at M-13 after dinner in August with this rig...
Simple conclusion is that the setup as is (Sirui VA-5 head, Gitzo 1541 tripod, televid 65) works pretty good, considering that it is easy to carry on my shoulder for several miles, and provides views I wouldn't be getting otherwise. However, one can see the limitations of it as well. Right now, I'm looking at a stiffer tripod, because,( as perhaps you are also thinking), down the road, maybe an 80mm scope will give me brighter views at higher mag., and you can justify the tripod NOW that could eventually carry that scope. The funny thing is, when I'm actually using the scope, I really haven't thought so much about shake or vibration. It hasn't put a damper on my observing pleasure, so to speak. However, as I mentioned earlier, its only been out 4 times, and never in a strong wind. When I sit there and rap different parts of the rig and see the vibrations through the eyepiece, its a bit disconcerting, I admit, but I consciously do not rap the scope when I'm viewing!
I was going to save up my thoughts and post something more detailed later, which I may still do, with photos and such, but you forced my hand!
I think the big consideration is how much one is willing to carry. This current rig is around 7 lbs. (3.14 Kg), over the shoulder. Not sure what my limits are for that kind of carry, and would I be discouraged from taking the larger gear out? Or move to a scope pack...
More research is needed!
Hope this helps.
-Bill
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Bill, thank you ever so much for the detailed review. So much appreciated, really!
When I first got the MM3ED-60 my main concern was weight and size. As it is, my scope-head-tripod combo is a around 2,5 kg/5,5 pounds, which I consider a pleasure to carry, so to speak.
I use a 32x eyepiece 99 % of the time. I think delivers a great (value) performance: size, weight, image quality and price. However, I find myself wanting for a bit more reach (well, who doesn't), and hence my idea to get something larger, and I really like the "package" the ATS HD offer, but I'm hesitating whether to go for the 65 or the 80. I don't think there is a lot in the scope itself (the 80 is surprisingly small for what it is), but I'm concerned about the tripod being the biggest factor in terms of weight (obviously, you don't want to haul around a 80x just not to be able to use it at 45-50 because of the shakes of a poor tripod).
I think for the 65 I can get something like the Mountaneer (1,15 kg/2,5 lb + head), but for the ATS 80 I think I'll need something way stiffer (and heavier) than that. So the search continues.
Thanks again for your lovely comments, do keep them coming!
When I first got the MM3ED-60 my main concern was weight and size. As it is, my scope-head-tripod combo is a around 2,5 kg/5,5 pounds, which I consider a pleasure to carry, so to speak.
I use a 32x eyepiece 99 % of the time. I think delivers a great (value) performance: size, weight, image quality and price. However, I find myself wanting for a bit more reach (well, who doesn't), and hence my idea to get something larger, and I really like the "package" the ATS HD offer, but I'm hesitating whether to go for the 65 or the 80. I don't think there is a lot in the scope itself (the 80 is surprisingly small for what it is), but I'm concerned about the tripod being the biggest factor in terms of weight (obviously, you don't want to haul around a 80x just not to be able to use it at 45-50 because of the shakes of a poor tripod).
I think for the 65 I can get something like the Mountaneer (1,15 kg/2,5 lb + head), but for the ATS 80 I think I'll need something way stiffer (and heavier) than that. So the search continues.
Thanks again for your lovely comments, do keep them coming!
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wdc
Well-known member
Hi Yarelli, Thanks for the kind remarks. I've gotten so much useful information from this forum that it is pleasure to give something back, or at least share what seems to be working with others.
I think your initial priorities are right: Portability! That was also my concern.
When out painting, I'm used to carrying around 25 lbs ( 11.2 Kg) of gear in a backpack, and have hiked as long as 12 miles with my art supplies. (I don't recommend). 3 kg over the shoulder, for a few miles, isn't much of a burden, at least near sea level...
Interesting that you also find a good result around 32x. With 65mm of aperture, 35x seems to work well. Also, that magnification surpasses the threshhold of identifiable birds that 8 and 10x can provide at certain distances. I found I could ID ducks that were out of reach, and in some cases pick up shorebirds that I never would have been able to spot with a handheld bin at lower magnification.
As for the tripod, you may be able to do better than the Gitzo at a lesser price. I will test the FLM a bit more to be sure, but I think it is marginally more stable than the Gitzo, (I expected a greater difference, based on the center column rankings), but it also is a little over half the price, at least in the U.S. It has a slightly wider leg angle than the Gitzo, which I prefer. The Gitzo has the center column for minor adjustments of height, which can also be useful. Circling back to the initial goals of portability, finding the lightest/most stable combination of tripod and head is an interesting challenge. What is the most stable tripod under 3.5 lbs is my current line of inquiry.
-Bill
