raptor - Brisbane coast (2 Viewers)

Captured today at Victoria Point, QLD
This raptor is not often seen and hence I would like opinion on what bird is this?

I think I'm seeing enough of a brow ridge that it might be a young Brown Goshawk, but not anywhere near 100% on this ratty tailed individual, though the legs do seem very skinny ..... making it either a computer nerd, or male, or maybe a Collared Sparrowhawk. In Oz the male Gos is roughly (a fraction bigger) the same size as the female Sprawk.

At the quick look around the internet I just had for evidence of any eye shading from that aspect on Collared Sparrowhawks I couldn't really find any positive proof - there did seem to be a plethora of misidentified photos though !

Was there any evidence of the typical flap flap swoop glide typical of the Collared Sparrowhawk ? Or did it seem to be more purposeful soaring/gliding and powerful rowing of the Brown Goshawk ?



Chosun :gh:

Chosun, I didn't have much luck to see both birds in action. All I can tell - this one was slowly soaring in circles

Cutterpillar said:

Chosun, I didn't have much luck to see both birds in action. All I can tell - this one was slowly soaring in circles

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Are these both the same bird?

The bird in photo #1 seems to have a much longer middle toes and less brow than the bird in photo #2


Chosun :gh:

Yes, both pictures belong to the same bird

Cutterpillar said:

Yes, both pictures belong to the same bird

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Thanks Cutterpillar, I'm really not certain - I think I'll stick with Brown Gos as more likely ..... but there's probably other people much better at separating these two than me.

The things that give me doubts are the curved trailing edge to the wings (suggesting CSH), the skinny legs and long middle toe - but in one picture only (suggesting CSH), and I have seen some pictures of positively identified CSH soaring where there is a small shadow cast by a very slight brow. One tail looks like it couldn't ever possibly be straight ended, the other looks like it might make it. I think I'd need an intact tail to be certain.



Chosun :gh:

thanks for sharing your knowledge, Chosun!

Cutterpillar said:

thanks for sharing your knowledge, Chosun!

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Don't thank me yet ! I haven't done anything - I have a 'nagging' feeling about that call

Juveniles and Immatures with bits and pieces of feathers missing, worn, ratty, or growing, are notoriously difficult to tell apart - especially in isolation (well for me anyway !

I have seen so much local variation that I no longer take anything for granted. For example, I remember walking through a rather ancient dry forest out west (largely White Cypress Pine, Iron barks, Allocasurinas, Scribbly Gum, some Grey Gum, and bits of Stringybark, and Grey Box, and even the odd Yellow Box, and Rough-barked Apple, - all depending on elevation (position - creek, flats, slopes, or ridges, and aspect) that was striking for its carpet of silvery grey dry lichen all over the sandyish forest floor, and for the rust orange coloured lichen all over one side of the tree trunks (southern side I think though the memory could be 100% wrong). The thing I do remember with absolute certainty is seeing a rusty orangyish brownish coloured Brown Goshawk staking out a puddle on an old track. I have never seen anything like it again. Totally matched to the particular colouration of the locality. Perfect camouflage.

Honestly, I find the best way to identify most raptors is to 'listen' to what is going on around you. Noisey Miner's in particular have a different alarm call for each species of raptor. With only little practice you'll be able to tell exactly what is around long before you see it. They are very accurate, and their many eyes in their 'gang' will pick it up long before you do. Other birds too will adjust their level of 'freakoutedness' depending on the species of raptor. For example - some birds not bothered by a CSH, will be worried by a Brown Gos, and completely freaked out by a Peregrine.

I find that putting that type of sensory information together, along with various species various field marks and general 'jizz' to be at least as valuable as distinctive species features alone. Context is a wonderful thing.
Some raptor Id 'pairs' though are still difficult to separate:
Collared Sparrowhawk /Brown Goshawk
Little Eagle (dark morph) /Black Kite
Brown Falcon (dark morph) /Black Falcon

Keep practicing - lots of observing, looking at lots of photos, and making calls (honestly with yourself with what you know up to that point) before the consensus of the crowd chimes in, is a good way to improve





Chosun :gh:

I think it's an adult Brown Goshawk, the frowning face looks good for that, and the tail does not seem square or notched

Brown Goshawk, big head (proportionally) and heavy brow line, plus middle toe too short proportionally for sparrowhawk