Florida - ID question and differences between two birds (1 Viewer)

I have a question for the experts here on what particular things to look for to help identify a rarer visitor to my area among much more commonly seen birds. I have unfortunately very little experience with these birds, so find it difficult to know what to look for.

There have been numerous reports of La Sagra's Flycatcher in a local park I frequent, and several folks posted photos of the bird they saw...but to my very untrained eye, I couldn't really see where the differences are from what I typically identify as eastern phoebe, nor from ash-throated flycatcher. The only differences I noticed is that the photos people were posting of the La Sagra's seemed to have a smaller head than the eastern phoebe, and a slightly narrower body. But I've also taken photos of what I think are eastern phoebes who don't have as large a head or body (I assumed to be because they are female, or juvenile), such as this one:

http://www.pbase.com/zackiedawg/image/148009314/original

Some of the 'la sagra's' photos I saw looked almost identical to the shot above, which I thought was an eastern phoebe. So are these birds fairly close to eachother in one of their seasonal patterns, or could their ID (or mine) be incorrect?

Any help appreciated.

Justin..like you I'm certainly a novice as far as these two species are concerned, first impressions...your image does have more than a passing resemblance to Eastern Phoebe..which would be more likely as an overwintering species than LSF?

Am not seeing any rufous panel with the primary edges..or in the tail which should be apparant in LSF?

I'm sure there are wiser counsels abroad, that will advise accordingly.

cheers

Thanks...I just have no experience with LSF - I tried looking up some photos online, but I don't have any bird guide books. I usually can rely on 'Allaboutbirds.org' website for when I need descriptions to help ID, but they don't have La Sagra's in their list. I've tried to go by other folks' photos of them, but have no way to know how skilled those birders are with their IDs. I was pretty sure the above is an eastern phoebe, but at least 2 of the photos purporting to be LSF look just like mine above. That's what's throwing me off - hopefully someone who knows these birds can give me an idea of what distinguishing features would identify a La Sagra's over an eastern phoebe or other local flycatcher.

One more bump in hopes someone can help me with ID pointers for LSF...

Wow, they are a lot more similar than I realized...

For La Sagra's Flycatcher, there are a few things to look for.

One is the beak, which is a bit bigger than Eastern Phoebe. Another is the tail, which should have some hints of rufous in it, as well as being a bit longer and less forked at the tip. The head will be a bit lighter as well than Eastern Phoebe, and the wings will have more obvious wingbars and show hints of rufous on the primaries.

Eastern Phoebe also have a habit of bobbing their tails up and down, almost constantly. Good luck if you try to go find it!

Also, I can confirm that your picture is indeed an Eastern Phoebe. Eastern Phoebe are common in Florida from fall to spring, while La Sagra's flycatcher are very rare visitors during the same time period, limited to south Florida, with only a few being seen each year.

Also, one more thing to help ID them are their calls, which are very different:

http://www.xeno-canto.org/species/Myiarchus-sagrae

Thank you very much...that will help a great deal. Glad to know I was right on eastern phoebe in my shot - I have a feeling there may be a few excited folks who think they saw the LaSagras that might have gotten the eastern phoebe instead. But there were at least 2 birders who posted photos and who have very believable experience who documented the LSF in this park location, so I'm heading out there this weekend in hopes it might still be sticking around. This will help me know what to look (and listen) for.

Zack, you can find two photos of the La Sagra's here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/sheriffsmith/8357473933/, and more information here (a rolling 7-day archive for the state): http://ebird.org/ebird/alert/summary?sid=SN35579. There's another La Sagra's in Miami-Dade County. And as others have said, your photo is of an Eastern Phoebe. The two are more similar than I would have thought.

Thanks Microtus - that's actually one of the confirmed IDs I was going on - and that's taken at the very place I'm referring to! That's the little guy I'm hoping to see.

Indeed I have never seen any references in the online guides noting the eastern phoebe to be similar to LSF, but I too was taken by just how close they do seem to appear, at least in their Florida wintering guise...that's what has been throwing me off - trying to figure the differences I should be looking for, otherwise I too might be posting eastern phoebe shots and thinking I saw a La Sagra's!

Justin, you should get a copy of the National Geographic field guide. The 5th and 6th editions have an illustration of LSF. Good luck tomorrow!