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Nikon to Exit the H**Ting caper ..... ? (1 Viewer)

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It's hard to imagine there being much of a market for an $8k, 4 1/2 lb "normal" lens.

For a company that is facing unsurety with their place in several markets, this seems an odd route. The WX bins also comes to mind.

Nikon seems to be a little preoccupied with proving their design greatness over maybe some other concerns.
 
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Alexis Powell said:
No one questions Nikon's design competency. It is their marketing and customer service/support ability that has long been in question, even on the camera side. Nikon is overall my favorite optical company, so I hope it is around forever, but I don't take it for granted. Look at what happened to Kodak.

--AP
Click to expand...

My dad was a research chemist for Kodak. I have one of his old cameras to remember that by. My uncle left me a couple nice nikon riflescopes that i still use. They'll be passed on to my children. The companies may go but it it is nice to still have some of their products. Not sure why an anti-hunting topic was posted here.
 
Upland said:
My dad was a research chemist for Kodak. I have one of his old cameras to remember that by. My uncle left me a couple nice nikon riflescopes that i still use. They'll be passed on to my children. The companies may go but it it is nice to still have some of their products. Not sure why an anti-hunting topic was posted here.
Click to expand...
Only Chosen (anti) and JG (pro) seems to have taken a position regarding the hunting market. Otherwise, the responses read pretty neutral to me.
And I'd like to add that hunters, if anybody, are the ones that are a bit on foreign ground here, on this site.
 
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Upland said:
My dad was a research chemist for Kodak. I have one of his old cameras to remember that by. My uncle left me a couple nice nikon riflescopes that i still use. They'll be passed on to my children. The companies may go but it it is nice to still have some of their products. Not sure why an anti-hunting topic was posted here.
Click to expand...

Not sure why you would even make that comment.

You do realize that you are on "BIRDForum" right?

I wonder how many folk have even read the site's Policy and Rules ?
https://www.birdforum.net/help/Policy

I posted the news from a business perspective - it's as much about horse and buggy driving as anything else. Nikon is a company under huge competitive pressure (moreso in it's imaging business from Smartphone disruption to some of it's traditional market segments). It's great that the crazy town Nikon company can now stick to the knitting (as much as WX binoculars and Noct lenses fit into their own peculiar mainstream core) and focus on products that we are interested in instead of playing in a peripheral Chinese Copycat arena - zero profitability or kudos there.

I should have included an asterisk or two in the title - the H ... T is an in-joke reference to another farcical marketing campaign from a certain blue badged brand ...... products that are now also defunct, though the technology would be welcome in products that we actually buy.





Chosun :gh:
 
jgraider said:
I would have to respectfully disagree. Nikon just dropped their premium line of binoculars, the EDG, to concentrate on more mid-level stuff. They do have their own Chinese stuff too, as you both know. I believe they will exit the sport optics market completely before it's over, as Nikon Camera is very anti hunting.
Click to expand...

Nikon dropping their premium EDG line of binoculars is a hole I would like to see them fill. I think the MHG range is a fine product that seems very well made - personally I would just like to see the optics quality improved a bit.

I'd be very interested in seeing what Nikon could do for a top notch birding binocular - ie not the WX extreme - whatever that is meant to be. To me, the MHG form factor is perfect. I would like to see a lighter CFRP chassis, some dual density or other armour lightweighting, a lightweight knurled metal focusing wheel, and importantly bump the optics right up. Keep the wide fields, improve the field quality a bit, increase the brightness and glare control. More FL and HT glass, more aspherics, and designed and finished to a higher optical standard (far exceeding the resolution standards), along with state of the art coatings technology.

I think such a product line in 42mm and 32mm ranges could go all whoop *ss on Zeiss's SF, Leica's NV, and Swarovski's SV.

High profit, halo models seem to be congruent with Nikon's business remodeling and market positioning. Sure that frog is jumping with it's nose pretty close to the practical improvement limit wall - but there are a lot of people in the world (more and more every day) - surely there are enough of them interested in connecting with nature to make the investment worthwhile .... :cat:

Your belief that Nikon will exit the Sport Optics market just shows how blinkered and out of touch some of the members that hang around on the bino forum are. I am sure that Nikon Camera is quite well aware of what the 'Sport Optics' market (a peculiar US centric bit of marketing bunkum anyway) is for ....... :cat: For those unable to see that then I am sure there are other forums more (a)kin ;)








Chosun :gh:
 
Hello All,

I think that the obsession over binocular weight is being carried too far , you cannot have your cake and eat it as well.

o:D o:D o:D

Cheers.
 
42za said:
Hello All,

I think that the obsession over binocular weight is being carried too far , you cannot have your cake and eat it as well.

o:D o:D o:D

Cheers.
Click to expand...
Don't discount it as a factor - for me at least it has a bearing on enjoyment, and I know I'm not alone in that. :cat:

I would much prefer to be carrying a 42mm Nikon MHG of around ~650grams than 42mm Zeiss HT or Leica NV of around ~850grams. Those heavier weights are deal breakers for me, and I imagine as the numbers of little old ladies grows, for them too. As such it's a market driver that is perilous to ignore. Ditto the Camera and Spotting Scope markets too.

Some of the optical glass weight is non-negotiable if you want a certain level of performance (Quality, Fov, ER etc). That just leaves engineering and materials sophistication as ways of bringing the total weight back down. I particularly enjoy that mechanical sophistication as a sign of quality and also resource efficiency.

I can remember trekking NZ and the Himalayas in my 20's where I've even cut the toothbrush handle in half to save a few grams ! :eek!: :-O :cat: :t:





Chosun :gh:
 
42za said:
Hello All,

I think that the obsession over binocular weight is being carried too far , you cannot have your cake and eat it as well.

o:D o:D o:D

Cheers.
Click to expand...

As I get older I notice the extra ounces. Lighter is more comfortable. Comfort allows one to carry and use the optic more. The best bin in the world is the one you actually have with you.

Chosun Juan said:
Don't discount it as a factor - for me at least it has a bearing on enjoyment, and I know I'm not alone in that. :cat:

I would much prefer to be carrying a 42mm Nikon MHG of around ~650grams than 42mm Zeiss HT or Leica NV of around ~850grams. Those heavier weights are deal breakers for me, and I imagine as the numbers of little old ladies grows, for them too. As such it's a market driver that is perilous to ignore. Ditto the Camera and Spotting Scope markets too.
Click to expand...

My regular birding bins now are Monarch HG 8x42s. I get a 42mm bin for about the weight of most 32mm bins. But they have other charms as well that have made them my current favorites, and I'm not a little old lady. With a nod towards the gentler sex ;)

Your idea of a super Monarch (my words) is interesting. Wick up the everything and charge half again more and watch them put a serious dent in the uber binocular market. The area you mention that I'm not 100% sold on is the fiber reinforced plastic body. It may be fine but I'm still a little suspicious about possible distortion, out gassing, and decomposition. Magnesium is stable, if maybe heavier.
 
Hello,

Kevin and Chosun , (posts 47 & 48).

I agree completely that a lighter binocular is more pleasant to use than a heavier one , and I understand it when people want to go lighter.

However I think that a point of diminishing returns eventually raises its ugly head , for me when a binocular is too light the shakes set in.

I personally am a bit anal when it comes to build and engineering quality , I really appreciate good engineering , good build quality , using the very best long lasting materials and superior performance.

Taking the above into account there eventually comes a point where further weight reduction is not possible .
I also do not like plastic.

A Paradox-------- The binocular that I currently like the best is a 1994 Carl Zeiss 7 x 45 Design Selection Night Owl , this superb beast weighs in at 1.2 kilograms , and has a (horrors) Plastic Body.

I DO carry this beast around and use it , and I am cetainly not built like Arnie S at all o:).

Cheers.
 
42za said:
The binocular that I currently like the best is a 1994 Carl Zeiss 7 x 45 Design Selection Night Owl , this superb beast weighs in at 1.2 kilograms , and has a (horrors) Plastic Body.

I DO carry this beast around and use it , and I am cetainly not built like Arnie S at all o:).

Cheers.
Click to expand...

You might not be built like Arnie today but if you continue with your Night Owl, you soon will be!

Lee
 
Alexis Powell said:
No one questions Nikon's design competency. It is their marketing and customer service/support ability that has long been in question, even on the camera side. Nikon is overall my favorite optical company, so I hope it is around forever, but I don't take it for granted. Look at what happened to Kodak.
--AP
Click to expand...
This is pretty much spot on. A decade ago, at least in my part of the world, any dealer would have some Nikon binoculars, at least. I still have not seen a Nikon EDG or Monarch HD because those dealers who used to stock Nikon will do so no longer. One of them, a recently retired private small shop dealer, is fan of Nikon, like AP. When I asked him why he did not stock Nikon, his comment was that he'd just as soon slit his wrists as deal with their "corporate stupidity". Just because he liked the product, that was not enough to continue as a dealer. Even the larger retailers, such as Sportsman's Warehouse loathe dealing with the "Nikon hassle". Impossible to get much elaboration from that point, but the situation remains.
 
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Upland said:
My dad was a research chemist for Kodak. I have one of his old cameras to remember that by. My uncle left me a couple nice nikon riflescopes that i still use. They'll be passed on to my children. The companies may go but it it is nice to still have some of their products. Not sure why an anti-hunting topic was posted here.
Click to expand...


Upland

Please be clear about this: Birdforum is a no hunting zone although it may be discussed in the Ruffled Feathers forum.

Lee
Moderator
 
Actually I have a colleague at work who is a licensed hunter but only hunting using his birds. He never fires a shot and doesn't even have a permit to own or carry rifles.
 
Troubador said:
Upland

Please be clear about this: Birdforum is a no hunting zone although it may be discussed in the Ruffled Feathers forum.

Lee
Moderator
Click to expand...

How does one gain access to the Ruffled Feathers forum? I can't access it.

I don't understand the apparent hatred for hunting, especially amongst educated birders. Some people here don't even spell out the word hunting, what's up with that? I don't hunt, but I work around a ton of biologists at the University of Alberta. Many of these scientists are considered to be the global experts in their fields, like polar bears and northern predators. The overwhelming majority of them respect hunters and how invaluable hunting is to conservation. Also, the majority of these biologists hunt themselves.

I'm very saddened that Nikon is leaving the scope business. I am a professional photographer who used Canon for 25 years and switched to Nikon 12 years ago. I have always appreciated Nikon for its diverse product lines. My Nikon rep told me directly, that Nikon left the scope business not because it was unprofitable, but because of virtue signalling, cancel culture protests. All very sad.
 
Yuk said:
How does one gain access to the Ruffled Feathers forum? I can't access it.
Click to expand...

You need to join Ruffled Feathers to gain access to it. Just follow the on-screen instructions.

I will PM you regarding hunting.

Lee
 
Yuk said:
.... I'm very saddened that Nikon is leaving the scope business. I am a professional photographer who used Canon for 25 years and switched to Nikon 12 years ago. I have always appreciated Nikon for its diverse product lines. My Nikon rep told me directly, that Nikon left the scope business not because it was unprofitable, but because of virtue signalling, cancel culture protests. ....
Click to expand...
If anything you should be glad ! :D

Good on Nikon for having the guts to get and stand by some values. :t:
Certainly playing in a market segment filled with Chinese clone products will not provide the fiscal salvation for Nikon.
They have enormous challenges as a business, and to be honest if any culture change is underway, then it looks like the QM2 would be able to do a U-turn quicker. As Alexis and Steve and others have said - their marketing, but particularly Sales Support, and Servicing have a long way to go to be satisfactory - so they can't even differentiate those defunct riflescope products that way, and it remains a serious drag still on their Sport Optics and Imaging business.

With the introduction of the MILC 'Z' mount they are strapped for design conceptualization, product planning and production capabilities - they need to flesh that lens and model range out double time quick. There are even (legacy) F Mount lenses which I'd dearly love them to make such as a 600mm f5.6 PF.
Also, as discussed here, their binocular offerings have room for improvement.

With all those challenges and outstanding work orders to complete I'm very happy that they'll no longer be in something as frivolous and dead end as riflescopes. :cat:





Chosun :gh:
 
Yuk said:
How does one gain access to the Ruffled Feathers forum? I can't access it.

I don't understand the apparent hatred for hunting, especially amongst educated birders. Some people here don't even spell out the word hunting, what's up with that? I don't hunt, but I work around a ton of biologists at the University of Alberta. Many of these scientists are considered to be the global experts in their fields, like polar bears and northern predators. The overwhelming majority of them respect hunters and how invaluable hunting is to conservation. Also, the majority of these biologists hunt themselves.

I'm very saddened that Nikon is leaving the scope business. I am a professional photographer who used Canon for 25 years and switched to Nikon 12 years ago. I have always appreciated Nikon for its diverse product lines. My Nikon rep told me directly, that Nikon left the scope business not because it was unprofitable, but because of virtue signalling, cancel culture protests. All very sad.
Click to expand...

+++100%
 
My 2Cents, Nikon is having difficulty competing with other brands coming out of China, so many others offering things lower cost. If Nikon was making money with their scopes they would have kept production in the rifle scope business. They are not making the monarch binocular line if it were not for profit. Another dent in their armor (a historically excellent product line) is their customer support and service, which has not been what it was in the past.
The sport optics division is minuscule compared to the camera/lens division which goes way beyond what we can buy retail, so there goes any internal support(for the sports optics division) from the company.

Alexis was right, no one ever thought Kodak would go away.

Andy W.
 
Yuk said:
How does one gain access to the Ruffled Feathers forum? I can't access it.

I don't understand the apparent hatred for hunting, especially amongst educated birders. Some people here don't even spell out the word hunting, what's up with that? I don't hunt, but I work around a ton of biologists at the University of Alberta. Many of these scientists are considered to be the global experts in their fields, like polar bears and northern predators. The overwhelming majority of them respect hunters and how invaluable hunting is to conservation. Also, the majority of these biologists hunt themselves.

I'm very saddened that Nikon is leaving the scope business. I am a professional photographer who used Canon for 25 years and switched to Nikon 12 years ago. I have always appreciated Nikon for its diverse product lines. My Nikon rep told me directly, that Nikon left the scope business not because it was unprofitable, but because of virtue signalling, cancel culture protests. All very sad.
Click to expand...


With respect to Nikon, they used to be the supplier of lithography gear to the semiconductor industry, but were unable to keep up as the technology shifted to extreme UV, where mirrors are used because the lenses absorb the E-UV.
Consequently they are now retrenching, because they are obviously hurting. In this environment, peripheral businesses will get the chop, even if they seem marginally profitable.
So at this point, Nikon appears to be all in on cameras, just as that segment gets transformed by computational optics. The Olympics may provide a brief fillip to sales, but the longer term prospects seem very uncertain. They desperately need software and computing competence to stay relevant, but have not begun to build a presence in that space. Teaming with some Japanese universities might be a good place to start if Nikon wants to see a
quasquicentennial.
 
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