Zeiss 8x30 B/GAT*P Compared To Zeiss 8x30B Dialyt, First Impressions (1 Viewer)

Well, i finally decided to update my "Bino-Arsenal" a bit, as truthfully i've been using nothing newer that about 30, 40, or 50 year old glass! Quite satisfactorally, i might add. :t:

These have consisted of quite a few Leitz early Trinovids in 6x24, 8x30, 8x30B, 7x42B, & 10x40 versions, as well as a just serviced by Zeiss 8x30B Oberkochen porro, and several Nippon Kogaku (early Nikon) porros in 7x35, 8x35, a VERY sharp 10x50 Mikron variety, .....and the main subject of this post, .....my mintish but maybe 50 year old Zeiss 8x30B Dialyt. (the early longer, heavier version)

These have served me well over the years, but i've not had a chance locally to review anything much newer. I've wondered what i was missing, with the better coatings available for many years now.

That changed recently with my purchase of an "as new" Zeiss 8x30 B/GAT*P that was missing only the outer box and paperwork that would have come with a new unit. New glass and cosmetics were much more important to me, so i made an offer on an ebay listing and was counter-offered at what i considered a fair price at $700.00 including shipping. Lacking only the "P*" designation, I don't believe i'm giving up much as from what i've read there is no difference with the "P" version in any meaningful way. (except dating it a bit earlier perhaps?)

The new Zeiss arrived yesterday and were as described, so i was pleased with the purchase. I doubt these were used much at all, as the typical (slightly) stiff focussing wheel is still there. Supposidly this will loosen with time, and quite honestly it's really not all that bad.

However, i now appreciate much more just how smooth and easy to focus my older Zeiss 8x30B Dialyt is. If that's what i can expect with use i'm going for it as quick as possible!

I was also really pleased with the lovely magenta colors appearing on the objectives and occulars. Given a choice i prefer this over the greenish tints i've seen on some coatings.

Unfortunately, yesterday it rained in the morning, and was heavily clouded the rest of the day. I did go out to the Albany, NY airport to get a feel for the new "B/GAT*P" , and I was amused at watching the incoming planes seeming appear out of nowhere prior to landing, and the jets taking off disappearing VERY soon into the heavy cloud cover! A bit eery for sure! :eek!: Several groups of passing geese were also viewed, and they too, at times, disappeared into the fiarly low heavy cloud cover. Sort of "now you see me, now you don't!"

Today is not much better,....heavily clouded, so I will have to preface this comparitive review by stating I will not yet get to see how much better the flare, ghosting, contrast, and anything else is controlled compared with my old Dialyt under strong sunlight conditions. Flare and ghosting were areas in the older Zeiss I expect to be much better in the newer version, although i got along nicely with it over the years. I think your brain shuts out a lot of the distraction, much like adjusting to a new pair of eyeglasses.

First impressions are surprising, however. I am more shocked at just how good my older 8x30B Dialyt is under cloudy conditions. About the only thing i can really notice is that the new B/GAT*P Zeiss is a "little" sharper out at the edges. (but i have to really look for it!) Considering they are most likely single coated, and without any phase coating,......they're still pretty damn sweet!

I never really noticed the slightly less focus in the outer edges in my old Dialyt's, because the center to maybe 80 percent out is just SO sharp that the slight tail off at the edges is not that important to me. The new Zeiss has a noticable improvement in outer edges sharpness, but i could only see that improvement when i was really looking for it. I don't consider that a deal breaker in any glass anyway, as we naturally "center" anything of note so the edges are of less importance in a practical sense.

However, in all other areas (again, under strictly heavily cloudy conditions), the brightness and contrast were hard for me to differentiate between the old girl and the much newer version!

Frankly, i was a bit surprised at that! However, i fully expect the newer version will begin to show the real benefits of the modern coatings. For instance, it's tough to get a comparson on "contrast", when the lighting conditions don't offer much contrast!

I've always suspected my 50 year old Dialyt was a cherry example, and one thing this preliminary comparison tells me is that is correct. I've always had a very satisfying experience whenever i've used the Dialyt, but have also seen it's shortcomings when faced with sunny day flare producing angles.

I believe under those full sun conditions I will be able to separate the two in a much more meaningful way,.....but that will have to wait for now.

One thing quite obvious is that the new Zeiss 8x30B/GAT*P is noticably smaller in length, but i noticed it is also a bit "fatter", due in part i'm sure to the armored coating.

BTW, contrary to what i've read on the armored versions fo this model, i can find NO fault with the finish on this pair. It was very smoothly finished and felt great in hand.

I've posted a few pics below to show some of that, and i'll add to my comparison review once the weather "sun's up"!

.....and it all fit nicely into the older hand made leather case I picked up recently on the bay, somthing the longer Dialyt couldn't do. A might easier to tote around, and about 4X as thick leather protection as the original pouch.

I thought i's touch on a few more items you might have noticed. I already had a large set of Nikon rubber rainguards, with them so large i had nothing to fit them to.

These seemed to be pretty close to the objective diameter of the new Zeiss armored objective tubes, but i couldn't use the side strap attachment points. They interfered with fitting into the leather case i wanted to use, and are of no use at the objective end anyway.

I cut off most of it with dog clippers, and sanded the remainder down flush to the sides with a 1/2 inch drum sander (fine grit) on my Foredom flex shaft machine in short order. I also trimmed just a little out of the inside, to make a little less tight fit over the outer parts of the armored objective tubes. I also tappered the leading edges so that the caps were more or less guided onto the binos. A good cleanup before the came near the lenses and were a nice fit.

I did the same with a new rainguard i pick up recently, and also removed the strap guides. I don't like it flopping around on the strap when in use, and as they are a good friction fit when using i'm not worried about them dropping off. When i'm using the binoculars it's just as easy to place both cap "pairs" into the leather carry case strapped over my shoulder.

The first pic shows the B/GAT*P in the case, but before i trimmed off the neck strap guides. It does show the good fit to the case.

The 2nd and 3rd pictures show a strap cover i made for the old Dialyt, which is just SO comfortable (and smells great!), that i plan on making one for this new Zeiss. I make them a snug fit to whatever leather strap I'm using, so they don't slide around on their own. Easy to adjust if you want to though. Zeiss service in Virginia (USA) just sent me the new eyecups, (at no charge!) as the 50 year old original ones had hardened in the turned down glasses mode. I prefer the cleaner view with my glasses flipped up, and nothing additional in the way.

I prefer leather, and although the Nato strap is comfortable, the stiffer middle sections connecting the various widths don't fold as easily when placing in the case.

Once I cut out another wider "back of neck section" i'll swap out the strap. I have a WHOLE side of super soft top grain cowhide i bought years ago and never used!

I make them about 9" long and 1-1/2" wide for these, and made a shorter 7" two hole version for a smaller/lighter binocular. (my Leitz 6X24 Trinovid)

The last 2 pics show the cap pairs all trimmed down, and with the starting edges tappered down to ease fitting.

. Dear Joe,
it would not surprise me at all if the older and longer 8×30 had better performance in as much as better resolution than the newer shorter version.
That is if the focal length of the objectives is longer in the longer version.

A 16×56 Hifensoldt from about 1955 out resolves anything I've found equivalent in a modern binocular.
Because of the single coatings the light grasp is not as good as in a modern equivalent.
Also I think that the optical surfaces are made to better accuracy than in modern binoculars.

Joe the Jeweler.

You've got a nice collection of old roofs and a few old porros. Don't you find that the porros are noticeably sharper than your old roofs without phase coatings?

I find that phase coatings make a big difference in image sharpness. As purdy as some of those old roofs look (I'm particularly partial to the Leitz 7x35 B TRINOVID), I would probably find them lacking in contrast and resolution, as I have non-p coated roofs I've owned or tried. The one exception was the Swaro 7x30 SLC. It wasn't p-coated, but perhaps because of the lower magnification, the image didn't look a bit "soft" like it did on the Japanese made non-p coated Nikon 8x36 Sporter I.

I noticed the long length in the Leitz 8x30 B, could be why the image looks sharp, a longer focal length tends to reduce aberrations even though the light is still out of phase.

Although flare in bins has different causes, I have noticed that the single and even MC coatings of older bins don't handle flare as well as many modern FMC bins. There are exceptions due to other reasons causing the flare, such as internal reflections, but in general, if I had an aversion to flaring, I'd avoid using old bins for daytime pursuits except in the shade.

Some of those older bins, porros in particular, work well for stargazing, although they do tend to show multiple ghosts on the moon.

I even notice the difference in flare control between my gray body 8x30 EII and my black body 8x30 EII, which were made about 12 years apart. They both have FMC, but the newer black body version does a better job at controlling flare. AFAIK, there is no internal difference between the two, i.e., baffles, just the coatings.

Old roofs may have their mystique, and old porros their amazing build quality, but for birding I prefer bins with fairly recent coatings for their better resolution, contrast, color rendition and brightness. However, when you're talking about top brands such as Leica and Zeiss, stepping up 50, 40, or 30 years will cost you thousands of dollars more.

You pay through the nose for those years of technological advancements. If you can't appreciate the difference, it's not worth it. Some aren't sure it's worth it even if they can see a difference. Just ask the Old Trinnie Rebels!

A long while back, Zeiss brought out an 8x30B/GAT*P anniversary edition and some store was blowing them out, selling them for less than what you paid. I almost bought one, but bought an 8x30 EII instead, and I have never looked back, but that's partly because I have neck issues.

<B>

brocknroller said:

Joe the Jeweler.

You've got a nice collection of old roofs and a few old porros. Don't you find that the porros are noticeably sharper than your old roofs without phase coatings?

I find that phase coatings make a big difference in image sharpness. As purdy as some of those old roofs look (I'm particularly partial to the Leitz 7x35 B TRINOVID), I would probably find them lacking in contrast and resolution, as I have non-p coated roofs I've owned or tried. The one exception was the Swaro 7x30 SLC. It wasn't p-coated, but perhaps because of the lower magnification, the image didn't look a bit "soft" like it did on the Japanese made non-p coated Nikon 8x36 Sporter I.

I noticed the long length in the Leitz 8x30 B, could be why the image looks sharp, a longer focal length tends to reduce aberrations even though the light is still out of phase.

Although flare in bins has different causes, I have noticed that the single and even MC coatings of older bins don't handle flare as well as many modern FMC bins. There are exceptions due to other reasons causing the flare, such as internal reflections, but in general, if I had an aversion to flaring, I'd avoid using old bins for daytime pursuits except in the shade.

Some of those older bins, porros in particular, work well for stargazing, although they do tend to show multiple ghosts on the moon.

I even notice the difference in flare control between my gray body 8x30 EII and my black body 8x30 EII, which were made about 12 years apart. They both have FMC, but the newer black body version does a better job at controlling flare. AFAIK, there is no internal difference between the two, i.e., baffles, just the coatings.

Old roofs may have their mystique, but for birding I prefer bins with fairly recent coatings for their better resolution, contrast, color rendition and brightness. However, when you're talking about top brands such as Leica and Zeiss, stepping up 50, 40, or 30 years will cost you thousands of dollars more.

You pay through the nose for those years of technological advancements. If you can't appreciate the difference, it's not worth it. Some aren't sure it's worth it even if they can see a difference. Just ask the Old Trinnie Rebels!

A long while back, Zeiss brought out an 8x30B/GAT*P anniversary edition and some store was blowing them out, selling them for less than what you paid. I almost bought one, but bought an 8x30 EII instead, and I have never looked back, but that's partly because I have neck issues.

<B>

Click to expand...

In my mind, "perceived sharpness" isn't simply the fine orchestration of quality glass, coatings, and magnification. It's MUCH easier for my brain to recognize "sharp" when i'm holding my 6x24 Leitz Trinovid (made 1963-65, & re-issued in 1967-???) or my late 1950's Nippon Kogaku 7x50 Mikron. Smaller magnifications cancel out much of the sharpness restricting extra shake that's part and parcell with using hand held binos.

The Mikron, especially, blows me away with it's HUGE depth of field, no doubt present because of the large wing spread of the objectives tubes. But it's a treat no matter the reason, and one of my sharpest binoculars even though its over 50 years old! That is born out when placed on a rest of some sort,....will rate "sharp" in anyone's book. The weight is up there though, so not a easy carry on a hike! And being single coated optics, you have to more carefully choose the lighting position to keep flare in check. Not a major problem if you plane out you position to time of day.

Porro's sharper than roofs,.....well, sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Dealing with mostly older binos, but noted in their time as top tier,....i can honestly say the viewing experience can vary between individual pieces much more than between whether they are roof or porro.

I've been lucky in that about half of the old roofs have had entirely clean and clear glass, (possibly serviced along the line?),which can't hurt their sharpness. I currently have a dead mint, but suffering from the usual internal gassing onto the internals, Leitz 10x40 Trinovid that's so highly rated by Ken Rockwell. In about 6 or 7 weeks i'll have that back from a CLA and am interested in seeing what it can do.

My Leitz 8x30 Trinovid had totally clear internals, and a small 2mm "tic" on one objective lense that is now seen while viewing,......and it has a wonderfully sharp and clear view! I call it my "beater",....but it's really much more than that. I'd hate to ever loose it, and someday i mat attempt to source out a replacement objective lense. (although i'd worry any cosmetic improvement with "new" glass might NOT be as good in resolving ability! lol)

That long tube Zeiss 8x30B Dialyt is one of the sharpest pair i own. I considered that before, but now that i have a more modern alpha to compare it to i'm sure of it now. It is in no way sharper than my newer version however, but no way it is less!

It's apparant to me that the biggest improvements over the last 50 years did not come from glass/prism advances. Maybe some,...but not enough for me to loose any sleep over. The coatings and baffling more so i'd think?

I've really got to wait for better lighting conditions to get a better feel for it, however,.....as I expect contrast and color rendition to be improved with the newer coatings. But these are just things I can't really notice under full cloud cover/low contrast lighting. (hense my "first impressions" disclaimer in the title.

I am expecting the newer (but still maybe 12-15 years old?) Zeiss 8x30B/GAT*P to beat the older Dialyt in controling flare and ghosting, so it'll probably get a lot of use for me. Possibly the longer objective tubes of this old girl create more oportunity for flare and ghosts to appear?

Anyway, the serial number is #423973, and it's marked made in West Germany,....so probably before 1992? If anyone knows for sure based on the serial number, please pass it along.

cheers,
Joe T

joejeweler said:

It's apparant to me that the biggest improvements over the last 50 years did not come from glass/prism advances. Maybe some,...but not enough for me to loose any sleep over. The coatings and baffling more so i'd think?


cheers,
Joe T

Click to expand...

Hello Joe,

Yes. If you include phase coating and dielectric coating for the Schmidt-Pechan roof glasses, coatings have been the most important advances in binocular technology. The FL/HD/EDS glasses do count for something.

For what its worth, I do use a very modern FL, but I also use a late model Zeiss 7x42 ClassiC. In other words, I can live with technology from a decade, ago.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

I did own an non P 8x30 Dialyt and currently own a late run 8x30 BGAT/P.

I think when you have time [and conditions] to do the straight up comparison, you will see better resolution and much better contrast in the P, as well as better colour saturation and brightness. My P is one of my sharpest bins, just as sharp as an FL, just lacking the latter's brightness and contrast.

Flare, however, will only be slightly improved, as the P still suffers from peripheral ''crescenting'', well off centre but still annoying. Lens hoods can just about eliminate this problem however.

james holdsworth said:

I did own an non P 8x30 Dialyt and currently own a late run 8x30 BGAT/P.

I think when you have time [and conditions] to do the straight up comparison, you will see better resolution and much better contrast in the P, as well as better colour saturation and brightness. My P is one of my sharpest bins, just as sharp as an FL, just lacking the latter's brightness and contrast.

Flare, however, will only be slightly improved, as the P still suffers from peripheral ''crescenting'', well off centre but still annoying. Lens hoods can just about eliminate this problem however.

Click to expand...

Yeah,...I'm really looking forward to a little sunny weather. I'm always amazed at how such a common thing as tree leaves come to life with some sun, and the squirrels and birds also. This summer a local duck pond had amazing coloration on some of the ducks,...and this year came within 4-5 feet or so.

I didn't need the binoculars to feed them whole wheat bread that close, but i still used my 6x24 Trinovid (about 8 foot focus for me) as it was a riot watching then chastize one another for snatching the bread away!

....and the usual Duck self pruning after a good meal on the water, in full sun,...was a treat also. The wing outstretched "stretch" was a common sight also.

.....It's been 3 days now,.....I really miss the sun! :-C

When the sun finnally stays around for awhile,...i fully expect to see a marked improvement in contrast. (and maybe look for some lenshoods to keep the flare in check.)

Hello Brock,

I checked my records and find that in July, 2005, I purchased a new 8x30 ClassiC, BGAT*P, anniversary edition for $600. That was not a bad purchase, even if I prefer the 8x32 FL. Like others, I find observing close to the sum problematic I would think that it would be a first rate glass for sports stadiums and arenas.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

joejeweler said:

I thought i's touch on a few more items you might have noticed. I already had a large set of Nikon rubber rainguards, with them so large i had nothing to fit them to.

These seemed to be pretty close to the objective diameter of the new Zeiss armored objective tubes, but i couldn't use the side strap attachment points. They interfered with fitting into the leather case i wanted to use, and are of no use at the objective end anyway.

I cut off most of it with dog clippers, and sanded the remainder down flush to the sides with a 1/2 inch drum sander (fine grit) on my Foredom flex shaft machine in short order. I also trimmed just a little out of the inside, to make a little less tight fit over the outer parts of the armored objective tubes. I also tappered the leading edges so that the caps were more or less guided onto the binos. A good cleanup before the came near the lenses and were a nice fit.

I did the same with a new rainguard i pick up recently, and also removed the strap guides. I don't like it flopping around on the strap when in use, and as they are a good friction fit when using i'm not worried about them dropping off. When i'm using the binoculars it's just as easy to place both cap "pairs" into the leather carry case strapped over my shoulder.

The first pic shows the B/GAT*P in the case, but before i trimmed off the neck strap guides. It does show the good fit to the case.

The 2nd and 3rd pictures show a strap cover i made for the old Dialyt, which is just SO comfortable (and smells great!), that i plan on making one for this new Zeiss. I make them a snug fit to whatever leather strap I'm using, so they don't slide around on their own. Easy to adjust if you want to though. Zeiss service in Virginia (USA) just sent me the new eyecups, (at no charge!) as the 50 year old original ones had hardened in the turned down glasses mode. I prefer the cleaner view with my glasses flipped up, and nothing additional in the way.

I prefer leather, and although the Nato strap is comfortable, the stiffer middle sections connecting the various widths don't fold as easily when placing in the case.

Once I cut out another wider "back of neck section" i'll swap out the strap. I have a WHOLE side of super soft top grain cowhide i bought years ago and never used!

I make them about 9" long and 1-1/2" wide for these, and made a shorter 7" two hole version for a smaller/lighter binocular. (my Leitz 6X24 Trinovid)

The last 2 pics show the cap pairs all trimmed down, and with the starting edges tappered down to ease fitting.

Click to expand...

This a really cool setup joejeweler! Do you still use this binocular in 2022? How its holding up?