kuzeycem
Medicinal Birding
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Merganser ID Help (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter kuzeycem
- Start date
kuzeycem
Medicinal Birding
Thanks for the answers so far, much appreciated.
Reasons why I think this is a Goosander are:
1) rather thick neck and large head (pics 1&2)
2) sharp-ish (though admittedly not super sharp) border between reddish head and white neck (barely visible on pic 2, was more visible in the field)
3) bright white neck (the neck in these pics are overexposed so don't mean much but it was very clean white in the field)
4) large white wing panel with only a hint of a black stripe running through it, nothing obvious at all (flight pics; must be well within variation)
5) rather pale grey back and forewing/wing coverts (flight pics, esp. pic 5)
6) rather strong base to bill (visible especially in pic 4)
Reasons why I think this is a Goosander are:
1) rather thick neck and large head (pics 1&2)
2) sharp-ish (though admittedly not super sharp) border between reddish head and white neck (barely visible on pic 2, was more visible in the field)
3) bright white neck (the neck in these pics are overexposed so don't mean much but it was very clean white in the field)
4) large white wing panel with only a hint of a black stripe running through it, nothing obvious at all (flight pics; must be well within variation)
5) rather pale grey back and forewing/wing coverts (flight pics, esp. pic 5)
6) rather strong base to bill (visible especially in pic 4)
Last edited:
Rotherbirder
Well-known member
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
I'm in the Goosander camp :t:
Microtus
Maryland USA (he/him)
I am too, tentatively.
Birdbrain22
Well-known member
Not sure you'll get a definite ID from those pics. FWIW... I like Red-breasted based on the series... but of course I can't be positive.
In the fourth photo I can see a dark line separating the white patch in the wing into two, which should be diagnostic of Red-breasted Merganser. It looks like one in the other pictures too.
Not 100% conclusive for me, but swaying towards RBM also - the lines in the wings could be shadows, although 1 line in one picture, and 2 in another make me wonder if one line is diagnostic, as should be 2 and 0 in the other maybe if just shadows, the shadow having not disappeared in the 1 line picture, therefore diagnostic?
The white at the tips where secondaries meet primaries is another factor that heavily sways me away from Goosander towards RBM.
If I had to choose, RBM for me also.
The white at the tips where secondaries meet primaries is another factor that heavily sways me away from Goosander towards RBM.
If I had to choose, RBM for me also.
kuzeycem
Medicinal Birding
Hi everyone, thanks so much for the interest.
I must admit I am very suprised, the wing pattern with those pale forewigs and white panel is seems such a typical Goosander to me.
Re. the black line through the panel, my studies last night led to my personal conclusion that some, especially 1st winter females, do show a weak line like the one on our bird (as mentioned in Collins and Advanced ID Guide)
The bill is interesting too; the out of focus swimming shots show a thin bill but the flight shots show a deep based bill with a prominent tip/hook IMO.
Also, that thick neck!
Wish the photos were better but my camera and the bird both didn't play along.
Please keep em coming, I love discussing educational birds like these.
I must admit I am very suprised, the wing pattern with those pale forewigs and white panel is seems such a typical Goosander to me.
Re. the black line through the panel, my studies last night led to my personal conclusion that some, especially 1st winter females, do show a weak line like the one on our bird (as mentioned in Collins and Advanced ID Guide)
The bill is interesting too; the out of focus swimming shots show a thin bill but the flight shots show a deep based bill with a prominent tip/hook IMO.
Also, that thick neck!
Wish the photos were better but my camera and the bird both didn't play along.
Please keep em coming, I love discussing educational birds like these.
I could convince myself for either species with these photos. If I only saw one of the images on a stand alone basis, I may say Goosander, and another I may be more convinced RBM! The bill looks different between photos, but some of that could be photo artefacts. As a set of photos on balance I would be drawn to RBM as I say.
The distance and especially the lighting didn’t help, I have tried enhancing for different aspects in Lightroom, but in doing so it is not clear whether I am enhancing blown highlights or actual whites, the same goes for shadows and actual black feathering. The neck border is hard to distinguish with the lighting, there does seem to be a sharp border, but at the same time other photos of the set convince me otherwise.
I hope you or someone else relocates it, failing that personally I would put it in the commonest category with a question mark over a possibility of the rarer bird, if you couldn’t be certain in the field, I don’t think we can be now unfortunately. 🙁 If however you were 100% sure in the field, and took photos as evidence, unfortunately they aren’t good enough for that, but you may be able to note it down based on your views? - quite often you just simply can’t take photos to match your views!
The distance and especially the lighting didn’t help, I have tried enhancing for different aspects in Lightroom, but in doing so it is not clear whether I am enhancing blown highlights or actual whites, the same goes for shadows and actual black feathering. The neck border is hard to distinguish with the lighting, there does seem to be a sharp border, but at the same time other photos of the set convince me otherwise.
I hope you or someone else relocates it, failing that personally I would put it in the commonest category with a question mark over a possibility of the rarer bird, if you couldn’t be certain in the field, I don’t think we can be now unfortunately. 🙁 If however you were 100% sure in the field, and took photos as evidence, unfortunately they aren’t good enough for that, but you may be able to note it down based on your views? - quite often you just simply can’t take photos to match your views!
Foxy
Well-known member
Looking at the bird as a whole it just doesn't look like a Goosander, it lacks the evident power and bulk of Goosander and the head shape doesn't look right. It is too straight, without the bulk on the hind neck of a red head Goosander and seems to have the shaggy nape of Merganser. I am sure you will find a picture of a mounting Goosander with a straight hind-neck which will only serve to illustrate how we need to be circumspect about inconclusive photos. Have you any field notes and sketches to support your view?
Rotherbirder
Well-known member
Agree; head & bill shape and even how the bird 'sits' on the water are totally 'off' for Goosander IMHO.
RB
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