coatings (1 Viewer)

Feel free to add thoughts, criticism, etc... I having been researching something that's been discussed numerous times on here and elsewhere! These are my findings in the formats that I like and chose to pursue. The binoculars were 7x, 8x and 10x in both SLC and el models. More specific 8x32 el wb, 7x42 SLC b and 10x42 SLC. The years according to serial #'s ranged from 2002-3, to current pre sv and HD lines. First off I'm color blind! But when a binocular has a strong bias it is easily detected if you know what your looking for. I used everything from back lighting, low lighting, natural, etc. I used white walls several shades of crate paper! This is what I found in the formats listed and no less than 3 samples of each! The one thing that's obvious is although the coatings looked different there outcomes visually were the same!? What I'm saying is although the coating on the 7 vs 8 when looking at them appeared totally different in color the outcome when viewing was the same! No bias!??? To me the big jump happened between 02-04! It is very obvious they went from a creamy color to almost neutral white. This is easily detected with the naked eye as well! So from 04-08 this is where it gets tough!!! From my samples you can't detect any change in contrast or color. Hence whites are white, etc... Coating color had different shades in this time frame but, visually the outcome was the same! My last sample el was from the last batch pre sv, its coatings are obviously different and finally you can see a difference in the color and contrast again! The almost neutral white is white as can be! We always heard not from swaro but us optics obsessed oh the coatings changed there better? Better how? If the outcome was the same? Feel free to disagree I'm only posting what I saw! And thanks to bf, friends and other forums where I was able to recoup some of my funds back! Bryce...

Bryce,

I'm not sure when the changeover took place, and it was probably a gradual transition rather than some line of demarcation, but somewhere over the years from 2001 to 2009, a dramatic change took place in Swaro AR coatings.

The 2001 EL had a yellowish cast, not a strong Soviet radiation detection yellow cast, but I could see that the overall tone was a bit yellow, which was particularly noticeable in low light.

Contrast and color saturation were not as good in the 2001 EL as the 2009 EL and SLCneu. I also tried two older SLCs, one dating back 20 years and one that was about 6 or 7 years old at the time, it was a Swarobright Alt SLC. That model seemed improved over the 2001 EL, but the image was not quite as "snappy" as the 2009 models. I tried the 7x30 SLC so long ago, I can't remember how strong the bias was or if this was before Swaro decided to tweak the coatings to create a yellowish tone.

To my eyes, I can see continual improvement in Swaro AR coatings Haven't tried the SV EL, but I would expect it to be even better in regard to contrast and color saturation. I've seen a similar continual improvement in coatings with Nikon binoculars, even though Nikon upgrades the AR coatings w/out fanfare. Dale Forbes said the same thing about Swaro's AR coatings, and from what I've observed, I can confirm that..

Although there hav been other improvements in binoculars, if you were to take a bin that has basically stayed the same over the years in terms of optical design - the Habicht series. the SE series, the EII series -- and tested various samples from 1999-2013, I think you'd see this continual improvement in AR coatings, with more neutral tone, greater contrast and increased color saturation as the years went on. Or at least I think you would. I'm not sure how being color blind affects your ability to see contrast and color saturation differences, though you apparently can test how color neutral the coatings are.

Considering that Nikon already had coatings with great contrast and color saturation in 2001 (LX series), Swaro had a lot of catching up to do, but I think that was largely due to the fact that hunters were (and still are) the company's chief customers, and a yellow bias helped cut through the din of winter and brightened up the image in the light-starved winter. Meopta also went through this transition from yellowish to less yellow to almost neutral with the HD series.

Now that they can make coatings that transmit over 90% of the light going through, they don't need to resort to yellow bias to make the image look brighter, and as more and more birders buy Swaros and Meoptas, the optical engineers might have had them in mind when making the coatings more neutral, and improving the contrast and color saturation.

Now if Meopta, and even more so Swarovski, could make their focusers consistently smooth, I think they'd even have more birding converts leaving their old brands for new Meopta HDs and Swarovski SLCs and SV ELs (except those sensitive to RB in the latter case).

Brock

I think lower transmission has a role to play in making an image yellowish or warm.

Brock, I was only able to aquire 02 but, it was very obvious compared to say 04! Bryce...

james holdsworth said:

I think lower transmission has a role to play in making an image yellowish or warm.

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Good point James.

Has anyone noticed comparatively recent coating changes?

I remember the ELSVs I tried three to four years ago as having a distinctly blue bias. Two years ago the ones on the Swarovski stand at a birding show appeared more neutral (but still mildly biased), but the demos in stores were still blue. The ones I've tried in the last year or so were all the more neutral type. Given the time separation and different lighting conditions I could be mistaken, but I have the strong impression that there has been a refinement.

As a separate issue I suspect the level of AMD changed at the same time.

Any thoughts?

David

David I have a new sv 10x50 in my hands right now! To me its as neutral as a binocular can be! Actually all the ones I have handled the last year have been that way! Bryce...

typo said:

,,,,
As a separate issue I suspect the level of AMD changed at the same time.

Any thoughts?

David

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Holger said that he talked to a Swaro rep, who told him that they had lowered the level of AMD in the most recent production of SV ELs, but Swaro has never officially announced this.

But it could explain why less people have RB issues with the 8x32 model, which was released after the 8.5x model. However, people have also said this about the 10x42 model, too, and earlier on, so there may other factors at work there.

<B>

stereotruckdriver said:

David I have a new sv 10x50 in my hands right now! To me its as neutral as a binocular can be! Actually all the ones I have handled the last year have been that way! Bryce...

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I can't claim it was more than an impression. I'd agree the recent SVs I've tried are good, but they still turn cream or pale straw coloured targets discernibly whiter to my eyes. That's a lot better than some alternatives. All eyes are different.

David

P.S. Brock, I didn't think the 8x32 AMD was as bad as those earlier 8.5x42s I tried but I don't see much difference now, but I rarely find good test targets to properly compare it. I haven't really looked at the 10x42.

James, post 3,
Lower transmission does not play any role in yellowing of the image, I have investigated that thourougly. Yellowing is the result of the color division under the spectral transmission. It is very nicely illustrated by comparing the transmission spectra of the Swarovski SLC 8x30 without Swarobright coating, with Swarobright coating and the newest version the SLC-new. The SLC new has an almost flat transmission spectrum over a broad wavelength range and whites are really white in the optical image, whereas the SLC without Swarobright coating has a clear yellow bias and its transmission spectrum is not flat at all.
Gijs

Gijs van Ginkel said:

James, post 3,
Lower transmission does not play any role in yellowing of the image, I have investigated that thourougly. Yellowing is the result of the color division under the spectral transmission. It is very nicely illustrated by comparing the transmission spectra of the Swarovski SLC 8x30 without Swarobright coating, with Swarobright coating and the newest version the SLC-new. The SLC new has an almost flat transmission spectrum over a broad wavelength range and whites are really white in the optical image, whereas the SLC without Swarobright coating has a clear yellow bias and its transmission spectrum is not flat at all.
Gijs

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All you need to know about coatings is that most of the time Swaro coatings seem to be the best and the brightest.

I thought I would never say this, but isn't the HT equel and brighter????

jan van daalen said:

I thought I would never say this, but isn't the HT equel and brighter????

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I can only agree :t:

Lee

Gijs van Ginkel said:

James, post 3,
Lower transmission does not play any role in yellowing of the image, I have investigated that thourougly. Yellowing is the result of the color division under the spectral transmission. It is very nicely illustrated by comparing the transmission spectra of the Swarovski SLC 8x30 without Swarobright coating, with Swarobright coating and the newest version the SLC-new. The SLC new has an almost flat transmission spectrum over a broad wavelength range and whites are really white in the optical image, whereas the SLC without Swarobright coating has a clear yellow bias and its transmission spectrum is not flat at all.
Gijs

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Makes sense and matches what I was able to observe with the samples that I acquired. So its looking like they were continually updating coatings gaining better transmission leading to more neutral color with better contrast. Bryce...