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Vintage Binoculars (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter LPT
- Start date
Additions to Vintage Binocular Collection
The following have been added to my collection since the last posting on August 23, 2013:
1) Angènieux 8X24F
2) Huet Paris Marine Nationale S.G.O. Mle. 1957 7X50
3) Leica Kern AARAU 8X30
4) NIFE Stockholm 9X45
5) Nikko 15X80 60 degree inclined oculars
6) Nikon 8X30 EII
7) Srb & Stys (bmk) Prague Dienstglas 7X50
8) Carl Zeiss Jena U.S. Navy Mark XXXV Mod. 1 7X50
I would appreciate any comments, further information or corrections the members of this forum could provide about these binoculars and my descriptions of them.
Once again, thanks to members of this and other forums who have provided new information about the binoculars in the collection.
The new binoculars can be viewed at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwpg/sets/72157640617382954/
The entire collection including additions can be viewed at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwpg/sets/72157623234405689/
The following have been added to my collection since the last posting on August 23, 2013:
1) Angènieux 8X24F
2) Huet Paris Marine Nationale S.G.O. Mle. 1957 7X50
3) Leica Kern AARAU 8X30
4) NIFE Stockholm 9X45
5) Nikko 15X80 60 degree inclined oculars
6) Nikon 8X30 EII
7) Srb & Stys (bmk) Prague Dienstglas 7X50
8) Carl Zeiss Jena U.S. Navy Mark XXXV Mod. 1 7X50
I would appreciate any comments, further information or corrections the members of this forum could provide about these binoculars and my descriptions of them.
Once again, thanks to members of this and other forums who have provided new information about the binoculars in the collection.
The new binoculars can be viewed at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwpg/sets/72157640617382954/
The entire collection including additions can be viewed at:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwpg/sets/72157623234405689/
I love the Leica Kern AARAU 8X30 Frank, very nice addition.
Have added to my collection today, but nothing as good as that.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/95019762@N07/
Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
LPT, post 182,
Very nice list of vintage binoculars. I have a question: in your list about the Leica-Kern Arau you write that this binocular was made by or inspired by Leica. However, I have a Kern-Arau 8x30 from 1984 (Hans Weigum was so friendly to supply me one), which looks exactly the same as your 1991 instrument. Morover I have a Leica 8x30, identical to this Kern-Arau 8x30 (labelled Leica and not Kern, with a low production number) and supplied with laser protection filters.
Moreover there is a Kern-Arau 8x30 Pizar which is fully identical with the military Kern-Arau 8x30 except for the focussing mechanism, which is not separate eyepiece focussing but central focussing. I found it in a Swiss shop around 1985.
So, what made you conclude that the Kern Arau 8x30 from 1991 is a construction invented by Leica, since the 1984 Kern model was already produced by Kern in 1984, when Leica was nowhere to be seen as far as I know, but Hans Weigum may know that much better.
Gijs
Very nice list of vintage binoculars. I have a question: in your list about the Leica-Kern Arau you write that this binocular was made by or inspired by Leica. However, I have a Kern-Arau 8x30 from 1984 (Hans Weigum was so friendly to supply me one), which looks exactly the same as your 1991 instrument. Morover I have a Leica 8x30, identical to this Kern-Arau 8x30 (labelled Leica and not Kern, with a low production number) and supplied with laser protection filters.
Moreover there is a Kern-Arau 8x30 Pizar which is fully identical with the military Kern-Arau 8x30 except for the focussing mechanism, which is not separate eyepiece focussing but central focussing. I found it in a Swiss shop around 1985.
So, what made you conclude that the Kern Arau 8x30 from 1991 is a construction invented by Leica, since the 1984 Kern model was already produced by Kern in 1984, when Leica was nowhere to be seen as far as I know, but Hans Weigum may know that much better.
Gijs
Hi Binastro,
That 20x50 binocular is not bad at all for around £15, I don't think I would get that price again. Bit "plasticky" but optically good. My brother has it now, I recall FOV is quite good but I'm not sure that it's quite the 7.8 stated. Anyway he likes it. Good spot with the 30x50 being really 10x50, your on the nail. I don't really know what to do with it now my curiosity is satisfied.
The similarity between the Trinovid and Leica/Kern prism cages is so striking that there seems to be a connection between the two manufacturers. Your 1984 dated binocular is the earliest dated one of this type I've seen and I agree does cast doubt on the Leica/Kern collaboration theory. I have also seen examples of this model with solely Leica markings.
Am I correct in understanding that your central focusing Kern-Arau 8X30 Pizar has (other than CF mechanism) the same build as the 1991 Kern in my collection? If correct, I find that really interesting and would love to see a picture.
Thank you for all this information and my description of this binocular will be revised accordingly.
Pinewood
New York correspondent
Hello LPT,
Nice finds. The Kern Arrau 8x30 ranks with my Leitz Binuxit 8x30. Perhaps, I may compare them. The Nikon EII is still in production but not exported to the States or even to the UK, as fas as I know. My one Huet, 8x30 M.G. Mod. 1956, has the feel of solid construction, which I gather is typical of Huet's military optics. I like what looks like a reflex finder on the Nikko.
Happy collecting,
Arthur :hi:
Nice finds. The Kern Arrau 8x30 ranks with my Leitz Binuxit 8x30. Perhaps, I may compare them. The Nikon EII is still in production but not exported to the States or even to the UK, as fas as I know. My one Huet, 8x30 M.G. Mod. 1956, has the feel of solid construction, which I gather is typical of Huet's military optics. I like what looks like a reflex finder on the Nikko.
Happy collecting,
Arthur :hi:
Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
Hello LPT,
Yes, the CF Kern 8x30 Pizar has the same housing as the 1984 Kern Arau and the (not dated) Leica-Kern 8x30. I will try to give you a picture.
Gijs
Yes, the CF Kern 8x30 Pizar has the same housing as the 1984 Kern Arau and the (not dated) Leica-Kern 8x30. I will try to give you a picture.
Gijs
From what I've seen the Huet military binoculars are much better constructed than their civilian models particularly the Huet post-war civilian ones.
Do you know of any other binoculars with a reflex finder like the Nikko's? Another collector has mentioned to me that some other large aperture Japanese binoculars had them but was not specific.
The Leica/Kern 8X30 is a dandy. Very compact but fits the hands well and being rubberized comfortable to use in this cold weather we're having up here.
Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
LPT,
If everything is going well two attachments are going with this post.
Nr. 1: Picture showing a Kkern-Arau 8x30 from 1984 (left), Leica 8x30 (middle and copy of nr 1) and right Kern Pizar 8x30 wih central focus
Nr. 2 Shows form left to right:
(a) Kern-Arau 8x30 from 1966, (b) Kern Arau 8x30 from 1977 , (c) Kern Arau 8x30 from 1984, (d) Leica(-Kern) 8x30 no year of production mentioned and Kern Pizar 8x30 with CF, binocular is further identical (c) and (d).
The Kern form 1977 has already eyepieces which look very similar to the later models.
Gijs
If everything is going well two attachments are going with this post.
Nr. 1: Picture showing a Kkern-Arau 8x30 from 1984 (left), Leica 8x30 (middle and copy of nr 1) and right Kern Pizar 8x30 wih central focus
Nr. 2 Shows form left to right:
(a) Kern-Arau 8x30 from 1966, (b) Kern Arau 8x30 from 1977 , (c) Kern Arau 8x30 from 1984, (d) Leica(-Kern) 8x30 no year of production mentioned and Kern Pizar 8x30 with CF, binocular is further identical (c) and (d).
The Kern form 1977 has already eyepieces which look very similar to the later models.
Gijs
That's a wonderful collection. Does the 1984 one have laser filters? It should be fair to say the design originated with Kern between the late 1970's - 1984. Still, the similarity between the Kern's and Trinovid's prism cages is, I think, more than just a coincidence. Perhaps the Trinovid build best met the Kern engineers' needs for compactness and durability and either the Trinovid patents had expired, Kern worked abound them some way or Kern bought permission.
Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
LPT,
The 1984 Kern does not have laser filters, but the Leica shown in the picture does have those filters. Leica also made one without laser filters, the difference between the two models can be seen by the color of the inscription: Leica written in red is with laser filters and Leica written in blue is without laser filters.
Do not underestimate the Kern engineers. I did not show the Kern 8x30 from 1934, but to my kowledge it was the first binocular ever with eyecups that could be pushed in or pulled out, so persons with spectacles (or gasmasks) could use the binoculars overseeing the whole FOV. My hypothesis is, that Leica copied the Kern design when it bought Kern and then produced the Kern models under its own name. I will try to reach Hans Weigum to get more information, since he knows everything about the Kern history.
Gijs
The 1984 Kern does not have laser filters, but the Leica shown in the picture does have those filters. Leica also made one without laser filters, the difference between the two models can be seen by the color of the inscription: Leica written in red is with laser filters and Leica written in blue is without laser filters.
Do not underestimate the Kern engineers. I did not show the Kern 8x30 from 1934, but to my kowledge it was the first binocular ever with eyecups that could be pushed in or pulled out, so persons with spectacles (or gasmasks) could use the binoculars overseeing the whole FOV. My hypothesis is, that Leica copied the Kern design when it bought Kern and then produced the Kern models under its own name. I will try to reach Hans Weigum to get more information, since he knows everything about the Kern history.
Gijs
Gijs van Ginkel
Well-known member
LPT,
I received the following information about Kern and Kern binoculars from Hans Weigum:
-1-The company started its production in 1819 in Arau
-2- Production of binoculars started in 1925 and production lasted for 65 years until 1990
-3- Binocular and monocular models produced: Alpin Lux 6x30, Alpin Stereo 8x30, Alpin Super 12x50, Alpinmono 6x24, Armee modells 6x24, 6x30 and 8x30. The last one was also procuced with laser protection filter and rubber armoring, Focalpin-10 10x60, Focalpin-6 6x40, Focalpin-7 7x50 .
The company was sold on Mai 13, 1988 to the Wild-Leitz group and the company was renamed to Leica Arau in 1990. In 1991 the production facility of Kern & Co AG in Arau was closed.
So I think, that Leica did not have any influence on the design of the 1984 Kern 8x30 army binocular, which I have shown in my photograph. The Kern 8x30 military from 1984 without laser filters is rather scarce nowadays, since many of them were supplied later with laser filters. From the civilian Kern Pizar 8x30 with central focus and rubber armoring only a few were made rather as a by-product of the army contract.
Thanks to Hans Weigum for ths information.
Gijs
I received the following information about Kern and Kern binoculars from Hans Weigum:
-1-The company started its production in 1819 in Arau
-2- Production of binoculars started in 1925 and production lasted for 65 years until 1990
-3- Binocular and monocular models produced: Alpin Lux 6x30, Alpin Stereo 8x30, Alpin Super 12x50, Alpinmono 6x24, Armee modells 6x24, 6x30 and 8x30. The last one was also procuced with laser protection filter and rubber armoring, Focalpin-10 10x60, Focalpin-6 6x40, Focalpin-7 7x50 .
The company was sold on Mai 13, 1988 to the Wild-Leitz group and the company was renamed to Leica Arau in 1990. In 1991 the production facility of Kern & Co AG in Arau was closed.
So I think, that Leica did not have any influence on the design of the 1984 Kern 8x30 army binocular, which I have shown in my photograph. The Kern 8x30 military from 1984 without laser filters is rather scarce nowadays, since many of them were supplied later with laser filters. From the civilian Kern Pizar 8x30 with central focus and rubber armoring only a few were made rather as a by-product of the army contract.
Thanks to Hans Weigum for ths information.
Gijs
Thank you Hans and Gijs for the information.
Frank
Hans Weigum
Well-known member
Kern/Leica 8x30
Dear LPT
As Gijs asked me for informations on Kern binoculars, I would like to add the following warning: The design of the Kern/Leica is unique in so far, that for reasons of more economical production and maintenance, each completely assembled half gets its mating surface at the hinge machined in a special device aligned to its optical axis such, that later randomly taken halves may be mated and will be collimated at once. So be careful taking apart this binocular, when you have no access to such an alignment machining device. World wide there might be only two of them, one only left operational.
Dear LPT
As Gijs asked me for informations on Kern binoculars, I would like to add the following warning: The design of the Kern/Leica is unique in so far, that for reasons of more economical production and maintenance, each completely assembled half gets its mating surface at the hinge machined in a special device aligned to its optical axis such, that later randomly taken halves may be mated and will be collimated at once. So be careful taking apart this binocular, when you have no access to such an alignment machining device. World wide there might be only two of them, one only left operational.
. Why aren't all binoculars made like this so that the two halves will be in perfect collimation? With the mechanical and optical axes all parallel.
I was told that this could not be successfully done but obviously it can be. Maybe it is just too expensive and needs special technicians.
I was told that this could not be successfully done but obviously it can be. Maybe it is just too expensive and needs special technicians.
Hans,
I noticed that the Kern's objectives do not have eccentric rings and thought the binocular was permanently collimated at the time the prism assembly was glued in place. However, according to your mail collimation is achieved at the hinge. Two questions: - 1) Is this collimation permanent or can it be adjusted by movement of something like eccentric bushings inside the hinge? 2) How strong is the hinge mechanism and do these binoculars easily loose collimation? My impression based on descriptions of the ones I have seen for sale is that it is strong and they seldom loose collimation . The only other binocular I have seen like this one which collimates at the hinge is the Avimo 7X42, but during the Falkland War it was reported they had problems maintaining collimation. I think this is not so much because the eccentric bushings in the hinges shifted but because under rough usage the rather thin hinge lugs tended to get bent.
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Hans Weigum
Well-known member
Dear LPH
As I already mentioned previously, the optical components of a Kern/Leica, new or after each overhaul, get assembled without adjustments regarding collimation. The halves then get (still separately) optically aligned to the special device, and their mating surface at the hinge machined perpendicular to its axis. As this happens with halves as individuals separately, there is no collimation process as such happening.
I warned against unnecessary disassembly, as there are no other means for collimation provided. As tolerances are probably close enough, reassembly without noticeable loss of collimation is likely.
If a damage to the extent of permanent deformation of the hinge happened, loss of collimation is likely to be a lesser problem.
For lack of sufficient degrees of freedom of adjustment, no proper collimation, remaining equal at all distance settings of both optical axes is possible with excentric bushes in two hinges. I am not able to explain this in words only at present.
Hans
Good question and I think you're right that it's not done more often because it is too expensive to make due to the high tolerances involved in fitting the hinge. Also, if a binocular was heavier and longer than the Kern/Leica, there would be more stress on the hinge necessitating a second hinge increasing production costs. Some advantages of the Kern/Leica arrangement seem to be 1) sealing - with no eccentric rings there are fewer joints in the objective assembly that need to be sealed and 2) durability - the prisms are glued in their housings in such a way that they can't shift and the likelihood of chipping is slight, and there are no eccentric rings which could shift and alter collimation. Also the hinge in the Kern/Leica looks a lot more substantial than the Avimo's (the Kern/Leica is a smaller binocular as well) and as Hans has explained contains few mechanical parts such as the Avimo's eccentric bushings which if disturbed could go awry to throw off collimation
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