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Black or Griffon Vulture (1 Viewer)

Oregonian

Oregonian

Well-known member
This bird, in eastern Portugal, was one of the first old-world vultures I had seen, and I identified it as a Griffon Vulture. Later in the trip we saw lots of Griffon Vultures in Extremadura, Spain, and got a good look at a Black Vulture.

Now that I look over my photos, this one appears to be a Black Vulture. Should I label it that way, or is it a bit too fuzzy? I have a few other images of the same bird, at Idanha-i-Nova.
 

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Difficult to tell in that lighting - but I'd have called that as Griffon. Unless they have expanded their range, Black's are pretty uncommon in Portugal.
 
In all the images of the bird, the coverts are darker than the primaries, which is what made me look closer. Thanks for looking.

I need more birding time in Spain and Portugal, to get more experience! We had a grand 12 days, but could only visit a few places - Monfragüe, Montesinho, Corrubedo, Someido and Villafafilla, mainly. If the birders who helped us get on the Eagle Owls at Monfragüe, just before the Spanish Imperial Eagle flew by are out there, thanks again!
 
Sorry I would most certainly disagree, based on your photo Oregonian it is a Griffon. It would be the first recorded Black Vulture with a white neck ruff if others persist with that view. The light in the photo would also make it difficult in the extreme to be talking about darker coverts than flight feathers. Wing posture in this instance matters not a hoot as depending on wind conditions and flight action these can vary tremendously.
 
Black Vulture for me. According to Collins the ruff on adult Black Vultures is beige-brown, which could look lighter in sunshine anyway, but what I thnk we're seeing here is the whitish neck skin in a rather blurred form. More importantly, auto-adjustment of the photo to remove the turquoise sky effect shows the bird appears to have pinkish feet. I had thought before, merely on general jizz that this looked more Black than Griffon, and am now provisionally pretty happy that it is. The serrated rear edge to the wing would be good too.
 
The wing shape (straight rear edge) and long 3rd primary say Black to me Black/mystery/Griffon top to bottom in the attachment
 

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Here's another image of the same bird, as it circled. This is without any photoshop adjustments save for croping and sizing. The camera may well have made automatic adjustments, of course. The light comes from a slightly different angle, and the coverts still look very black.

Thanks again for comments,
Jeff
 

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isn't lammergeier/bearded vulture larger in terms of wingspan? and check the wingspan of dalmatian pelican! (haven't got any books with me but i think it reaches up to 280 cm?).

cheers and good birding (the subject vulture is an aegypius monachus without any doubt...)
 
well now you have me checking Lou

Black vulture 250–295 cm
Lammergeier 266–282 cm

according to BWP

but smug mode disengaged when I saw

wing-span 310–345 cm; for Dalmation Pelican

Welcome to Europe's largest Vulture :)
 
Black Wheatear said:
Sorry I would most certainly disagree, based on your photo Oregonian it is a Griffon. It would be the first recorded Black Vulture with a white neck ruff if others persist with that view. The light in the photo would also make it difficult in the extreme to be talking about darker coverts than flight feathers. Wing posture in this instance matters not a hoot as depending on wind conditions and flight action these can vary tremendously.
Click to expand...

The ruff is not white but much paler than the rest, being typical in most adult Blacks. Same with wing colours and shape, no light effects I'm afraid.
Many Blacks here to compare:

http://www.sofnet.org/index.asp?lev=1959&typ=1

and Griffons:

http://www.sofnet.org/index.asp?lev=1958&typ=1

Cheers,
Eduardo
 
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Well, I hang my head in shame! The 2nd photo certainly nails the id as BV, so just off to do some penance like ringing some GV due for release today after being in a recovery centre. Sorry Motmot et al.

:eat:
 
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