Phetchaburi Thailand Jan 28 - Possible Cinereous Vulture? (3 Viewers)

[Indobirder]

Hi All,
After looking for a recently reported Tufted Duck, my friend and I saw a large distant raptor. At the time he commented that it seemed very broad winged and I remember noting that we didn't see any white crescents in the wing. We sort of assumed it must be a Greater Spotted Eagle but because it didn't seem quite right, we left it as an Aquila sp. My friend sent me the photos this morning and he suggested that the structure and coloration seem a lot more reminiscent of a vulture and it seems to match relatively well with Cinereous Vulture. There is only one other record of Cinereous Vulture for Thailand and the it is from 2011 (in the same province actually). Would love to get some input, especially from anyone who has some experience with the species. Many thanks

Edit: here's a link to the eBird checklist with photo and comment: https://ebird.org/checklist/S159982378

 

[tconzemi]

Definetely not a Cinereous Vulture

 

[MacNara]

Seven fingers.

Changeable Hawk-eagle? Tail shape may be due to moult?

 

[tconzemi]

I do not see a vulture here, but as I have no experience at all and not even an idea about possible candidates in Thailand, I would just suggest to look at broadwinged eagles with broader hand than arm

 

[johnallcock]

The wing shape on the second photo gives me an impression of Black Eagle - as Tom mentions, a very broad hand relative to the arm.

 

[Indobirder]

Thank you all for your input - it's very much appreciated!

I finally got to upload my own photos -- and I know that these next images are a significant downgrade in terms of quality -- but perhaps the additional angles and shapes that these provide would contribute something to an ID.

I'm unfamiliar with Black Eagle but the Lynx Bird of Thailand guide indicates the species should only occur over 800 masl, favoring montane broadleaf evergreen forest, whereas the location we were was quite likely <10 masl and open fields/paddies. That said, in term of rarity it would certainly be a better contender than Cinereous Vulture haha. I've also read that Black Eagle soars with wings in V.

Again, thank you all for your time and effort

 

[THE_FERN]

Not a black eagle. Wings wrong

 

[MacNara]

My 'Changeable Hawk-Eagle' in #2 was based on agreeing with Tom that it wasn't a vulture. But looking again, Cinereous Vulture definitely looks the closest fit, with seven fingers, and the tail fits, too.

 

[MacNara]

It looks exactly like the E-Bird main picture for Cinereous (Indobird's photo slightly adjusted, hopefully improved).

 

[MacNara]

Or would Steppe Eagle be a possibility?

E-bird distribution map doesn't have it in Thailand, but E-bird sightings map suggests it's not that rare.

Also Thai National Parks has it on the list.

 

[Indobirder]

Steppe Eagle is possible in Thailand. But the wings appear broader than Steppe has?

Other people have suggested Himilayan Griffon as those can also be very dark. The head appears like it may be wrong for vulture (bill not long enough?). on the flip side it sometimes looks too small for an eagle and also looks in the 2nd image that it drops down from the shoulders like that of a vulture.

I guess it's surprisingly difficult to be sure given these images.

 

[Butty]

Black (cinereous, yuk) vulture isn't a particularly characterful vulture, shape-wise. It impresses more by its hulking planklikeness. If this was somewhere that black vultures live I wouldn't be too bothered about seeing it identified as black vulture. (Black eagle is normally a very distinctive raptor, and I doubt one could have this many photos of one and its ID not be undeniable in at least one photo. In only one wing of one of these photos is there a suggestion of black-eagle-shape - and that just doesn't cut it.)

 

[Patudo]

I've never seen a cinereous vulture, but am familiar with Changeable hawk-eagle (regularly seen in Singapore) and am certain this bird isn't it. CHE has a much longer tail, head should look larger proportionately, wings while broad are not so long and square at the wingtips.

OP, any field notes re: pattern of flight or other impressions?

 

[Jim M.]

E-bird distribution map doesn't have it in Thailand, but E-bird sightings map suggests it's not that rare.

Actually, e-bird has 3 records of Cinereous Vulture for Thailand from the Nong Pla Lai – Bang Chak paddies, which is close to where the OPs photos were taken. The records are from 2010-2011 and are probably for the same bird since they are only a few days apart in late December and early January (so also close to when the OP's bird was seen). [Edit: also likely the same record mentioned by OP in his first post.] There are also a few records from just across the border in Laos and Myanmar, but they aren't close to the original location. (Cinereous Vulture is a good name because the bird isn't black, unlike the true Black Vulture of the Americas ).

 

[kuzeycem]

Not a Cinereous Vulture, %100. Bill is too thin for one thing.

 

[HouseCrow]

Bills of Himalayan and Slender-billed Vulture are slender in comparison to Cinereous I would think. The shortish neck seems fine when compared to the ebird main shot of the ebird page on Griffon Vulture (which I suppose is more or less identical to Himalayan in shape)

mind, I have no experience with East Asian regular vultures.
cheers,
G

 

[James Eaton]

The bill size and shape rules out a vulture, in my opinion, check out the size ratio vs the head. Pinched in trailing edge discounts the barn door Monk Vulture appearance too. Outermost primary significantly shorter than longest primary too.
Tail shape would also rule out Griffon.

To me, without seeing some plumage feature I'd hesitate to state which Aquila / Clanga it is (shape rules out any forest edge / forest species), but given the short tail, I'd be fairly happy calling this a Greater Spotted Eagle.

 

[Abdul Maleek]

Thank you all for your input - it's very much appreciated!

I finally got to upload my own photos -- and I know that these next images are a significant downgrade in terms of quality -- but perhaps the additional angles and shapes that these provide would contribute something to an ID.

I'm unfamiliar with Black Eagle but the Lynx Bird of Thailand guide indicates the species should only occur over 800 masl, favoring montane broadleaf evergreen forest, whereas the location we were was quite likely <10 masl and open fields/paddies. That said, in term of rarity it would certainly be a better contender than Cinereous Vulture haha. I've also read that Black Eagle soars with wings in V.

Again, thank you all for your time and effort

Having quite a lot of experience with eagles, I can comfortably say it is either a steppe or a greater spotted eagle. More probably steppe, considering the expansive wings and fingers. Yes they can sometimes be very broad, giving an impression of a vulture.