ntbirdman
Well-known member
They just say this, referring to the comparison between A. kuehnerii and A. b. suttoni:
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Arremon (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Peter Kovalik
- Start date
They just say this, referring to the comparison between A. kuehnerii and A. b. suttoni:
COLOMBIA Birding
Well-known member
indeed they look quite similar!...
FRONTISPIECE. Painting of three Mexican Arremon brush-finches, including A. brunneinucha brunneinucha (top; MZFC 4462, Mexico, Veracruz, Monte Blanco, 5 km E Teocelo), A. kuehnerii [sp. nov.] (middle; MZFC 3986, Mexico, Guerrero, El Iris, Tlacotepec), and A. virenticeps (bottom; MZFC 21462, Mexico, Jalisco, Municipio San Sebastian del Oeste, carretera San Sebastian a la Bufa)
Available at:
http://www.bioone.org/na101/home/li...903/images/large/i1559-4491-125-3-ii-f01.jpeg
FRONTISPIECE. Painting of three Mexican Arremon brush-finches, including A. brunneinucha brunneinucha (top; MZFC 4462, Mexico, Veracruz, Monte Blanco, 5 km E Teocelo), A. kuehnerii [sp. nov.] (middle; MZFC 3986, Mexico, Guerrero, El Iris, Tlacotepec), and A. virenticeps (bottom; MZFC 21462, Mexico, Jalisco, Municipio San Sebastian del Oeste, carretera San Sebastian a la Bufa)
Available at:
http://www.bioone.org/na101/home/li...903/images/large/i1559-4491-125-3-ii-f01.jpeg
thyoloalethe
Well-known member
IMHO just another good example of paraphyletic speciation, with A. virenticeps having diverged more rapidly than the more basal members of the clade. The new species seems purely PSC.
Liam
Liam
Melanie
Well-known member
Peter Kovalik
Well-known member
Proposal (653) to SACC:
Change English name Brush-Finch to Brushfinch
Change English name Brush-Finch to Brushfinch
thomasdonegan
Former amateur ornithologist
So Atlapetes are to be "Brush-Finch" and Arremon "Brushfinch" because the hyphen obviously means they are sister taxa. Unlike the other Arremon which are Sparrows and stride at least two unrelated families. Because the word "Sparrow" is not hyphenated, the term does not imply close relationships between birds with this name. Of course, Arremon/Atlapetes are much closer related to one another than Arremon/Passer.
Oh and Black Vultures or White Ibis, which are names for two different species in different continents on the SACC, are not implied to be sisters in the same way.
You would have thought this committee did not have to deal with the world's most diverse fauna and the numerous real taxonomic issues and "real" English name controversies that they face.
Oh and Black Vultures or White Ibis, which are names for two different species in different continents on the SACC, are not implied to be sisters in the same way.
You would have thought this committee did not have to deal with the world's most diverse fauna and the numerous real taxonomic issues and "real" English name controversies that they face.
Richard Klim
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Van & Tom assure us that the planet will continue to rotate on its axis. But I'm beginning to have serious doubts... :smoke:
Tom Schulenberg
Active member
No, the idea in this proposal is that * all * Brush-Finches (Atlapetes and Arremon) would become Brushfinches.
There are alternative options, of course, including changing all Arremon to Sparrow, just removing the hyphen and leaving all as Brush Finch, and no doubt other options (feel free as always to submit comments to the SACC page). The purpose of the proposal is simply to retain something as close as possible to well established English names while acknowledging that the old version of Atlapetes was not a monophyletic assemblage.
thomasdonegan
Former amateur ornithologist
Thanks Tom. You may want to clarify that in the proposal, which can be read either way due to how footnote 74a is quoted.
Still makes little sense to me, but then little work on English names by any taxonomic committees over the last 15 years or so makes much sense to me.
Still makes little sense to me, but then little work on English names by any taxonomic committees over the last 15 years or so makes much sense to me.
Richard Klim
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Peter Kovalik
Well-known member
López, K., Cody A., Aguilar, C., Loaiza. J., De León, L.F., McMillan O., and Miller M. 2015. Extreme mitogenomic divergence between two syntopic specimens of Arremon aurantiirostris (Aves: Emberizidae) in Central Panama suggests possible cryptic species. In press, Mitochondrial DNA.
Peter Kovalik
Well-known member
l_raty
laurent raty
The same two haplogroups can be seen in the BOLD barcode database. One is present in specimens from the provinces of Darién, Panamá, and westwards to the province of Veraguas; the other in specimens from Tabasco in México, the province of Bocas del Toro, and eastwards to the province of Colón (where Achiote, the origin of López et al's samples, is located).
Veraguas is significantly farther W than Colón: this suggests both haplogroups may coexist over a zone that is at least a good 100km-wide.
A single bird from Perú (Amazonas) looks still more divergent.
(I've attached ID trees produced by submitting the cox1 sequences of the two mitogenomes published by López et al to the BOLD ID engine.)
Richard Klim
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Orange-billed Sparrow(s)
With reference to Rising 2011 (HBW 16), theoretically birds at Achiote should be nominate aurantiirostris, whilst those from Bocas del Toro and Darién should be rufidorsalis (or possibly aurantiirostris?) and strictocollaris respectively.
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l_raty
laurent raty
Would be interesting to know which populations this applies to... Are we talking of the Caribbean and Pacific slopes of Panama? Or the Caribbean slope of Mexico vs. the Pacific slope of Ecuador? Are there data that suggest homogeneity across each slope? Anyone know where this info was taken from?
(IF ONLY these books had a decent referencing system... |
| :C |=@|)The divergent Peruvian bird should be spectabilis Sclater 1855; the only cis-Andean taxon.
Richard Klim
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Especially given that both aurantiirostris and strictocollaris supposedly occur on both slopes in Panama!
See also Hart et al 2013 (Neotropical Birds Online)...
...and Ridgely & Tudor 2009, discussing S American populations...
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