Birding Asia Taxonomy (1 Viewer)

[Mysticete]

I think this should be Maroon Oriole split, which is a tentative assessment at present (not backed up by morphology, vocal analysis etc.). Perhaps this is why there are no proposed names.

Not sure why the Great Eared Nightjar split, which is possibly determined on a wider range of data, had no proposed names… either in Latin or English.

Whoops...did this quickly

 

[Jon.Bryant]

Modern nomenclature in some areas, particularly Asia, is getting a bit pretentious IMHO, keep it simple.

Perhaps.... but I don't think we should get too worked up about English names. With 11,000 ish species there are bound to be some interesting choices, and Latin is meant to be the common thread (although many Latin names also vary between different taxonomies).

I am also not that sure that characteristics of a bird are obvious from a name - or at least they often over simplify the issue. Prior to the split should we have really had 'Marginally smaller with a finer bill, sand, but also mud and occasionally grassy fields Plover' in lieu of 'Lesser Sand Plover'. I am sure that anyone who has seen Sand Plovers, would think that Lesser and Greater is often a huge over-simplification.

My own bug bear is things like 'Sand Plover' (IOC), 'Sand-Plover' (Clements) and 'Sandplover' (BirdLife International). I am sure that the WGAC must have better things to do then ponder the merits of spaces, hyphens or single words. How about everyone throws their idea in the hat, and whatever gets picked we stick with.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

How about Medium Egret for a horrid name... I think Intermediate is far more descriptive. Why did Clements have to change the previous name, just because they split off Plumed and Yellow-billed?

 

[njlarsen]

How about Medium Egret for a horrid name... I think Intermediate is far more descriptive. Why did Clements have to change the previous name, just because they split off Plumed and Yellow-billed?

For one thing, because it makes it much easier to determine if someone talking about Intermediate egret does not believe in the split (or just is using an old field guide) versus believing that the split form of (now) middle egret occurs away from the area expected. Likewise with scientific papers of e.g., behavior, are they talking about the bird sensu latu or strictu? Much simpler when none of the daughters carry the old name.
Niels

 

[James Lowther]

Agree with the principle of giving daughter species new names.

But, “medium” is an abysmal name by any standards. Not sure if plumed and yellow-billed are especially helpful either. I’ve no idea which is which.

Can’t see anything particularly wrong with geographical names for new splits, especially if there aren’t any major differences in plumage etc.

Cheers
James

 

[Andy Adcock]

Dare I ask what is wrong with any of the common names of the proposed split taxa? Most of the names seem pretty mundane to me, or they reference geography. Although it's weird that the summary at least doesn't include common names at all for the Silver Oriole split.

See post 16 re Larwo.

 

[DMW]

I think it's quite prudent for authors of taxonomic papers to not proffer common names - it's outside science and can easily end up causing controversy and distract from the rest of the paper.

 

[Mysticete]

Agree with the principle of giving daughter species new names.

But, “medium” is an abysmal name by any standards. Not sure if plumed and yellow-billed are especially helpful either. I’ve no idea which is which.

Can’t see anything particularly wrong with geographical names for new splits, especially if there aren’t any major differences in plumage etc.

Cheers
James

The Clements checklist states that the Australian form does indeed have the longest plumes, so it seems appropriate enough. And IIRC Yellow-billed was the preferred name for Intermediate already in South Africa and presumably other English speaking parts of Africa.

I'm fine with the names, especially in the context that we are likely to see future splits in white egrets in the old world, and having multiple species of similar egrets with Australasian or whatnot in their name could be confusing

 

[sicklebill]

For one thing, because it makes it much easier to determine if someone talking about Intermediate egret does not believe in the split (or just is using an old field guide) versus believing that the split form of (now) middle egret occurs away from the area expected. Likewise with scientific papers of e.g., behavior, are they talking about the bird sensu latu or strictu? Much simpler when none of the daughters carry the old name.
Niels

I have suggested Asian Intermediate Egret in place of Medium, (they keep Rufous Fantail in some of the splits along with a modifier), and this retains a long established name in Intermediate, and also links to the scientific name.

 

[Andy Adcock]

My own bug bear is things like 'Sand Plover' (IOC), 'Sand-Plover' (Clements) and 'Sandplover' (BirdLife International). I am sure that the WGAC must have better things to do then ponder the merits of spaces, hyphens or single words. How about everyone throws their idea in the hat, and whatever gets picked we stick with.

For the purposes of your own list, just do what you feel is right and don't worry that there is no solidly, agreed format.