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Best mothing conditions? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Mabel
- Start date
Surreybirder
Ken Noble
warm nights with plenty of cloud cover and not much wind.
If you caught nothing much at this time of year it suggests that your trap is not very effective. I saw several moths about in my garden last night even though I only had an ordinary outside light on.
Ken
If you caught nothing much at this time of year it suggests that your trap is not very effective. I saw several moths about in my garden last night even though I only had an ordinary outside light on.
Ken
Brian Stone
A Stone chatting
I agree. At this time of year it shouldn't take much to attract at least a few moths and any of the standard trap designs will have a few moths present in the morning even in the worst habitat. What sort of trap have you built?
Brian Stone
A Stone chatting
The other thing that can result in a more or less empty trap is the light going off well before dawn. In the total dark most moths become active and can find a way out.
What bulb are you using?
What bulb are you using?
Brian Stone
A Stone chatting
Is that an MV or actinic bulb?
It was a cooler night than of late, but I still got nearly 100sp in each of my 2 Skinner 125MV traps last night.
While I wouldn't expect many places to get this kind of numbers, there should have been plenty all the same. the cooler conditions seemed to reduce the micro numbers as I'd plenty of the larger moths.
While I wouldn't expect many places to get this kind of numbers, there should have been plenty all the same. the cooler conditions seemed to reduce the micro numbers as I'd plenty of the larger moths.
Surreybirder
Ken Noble
Something to be grateful for, at this stage in your mothing careerAndrew said:
I don't get anything like the variety that Angus does. Eg c35 sp on 21st July.
Ken
CornishExile
rydhsys rag Kernow lemmyn!
Andrew said:
10 or 15! You lucky, lucky b#st#rd!
Since moving to Shetland my moth trap's been almost entirely unused - it's rarely ideal weather conditions for trapping, and the few occasions I have set it up the catch has been almost 100% Dark Arches, with the occasional Silver Y thrown in for variety. Must be something to do with living on a peninsular surrounded by sea on three sides and the relative lack of suitable habitat, as I gather there are traps run in heavily vegetated sheltered gardens on Mainland which do fairly well.
On the plus side, the MV bulb does occasionally attract Storm Petrels which flit in and out of the pool of light cast by it. So some compensation there!
jon
expectations?
Hi Mabel,
If I may, I would like to ask what are your expectations as a newcomer to the world of moths? Your answer may well account for what you are actually seeing and how you interpret what is a large or small moth - everything is relative and out here in Hong Kong a large moth would dwarf even some of the biggest species seen in GB & I. In all honesty scale is important in getting people's attention and the revolution in digital photography that has taken place in the last few years has allowed even the very tiniest of moths to be given the large screen treatment, allowing us to truely be amazed by the variety of colours and patterns that would otherwise be missed. Seeing the same species at real scale can often be a disappointment at first, if you have seen good macrophotos of pretty, small moths beforehand. Please don't be disheartened. The use of a magnifying glass or handlens will greatly enhance your experience of the moth world.
I hope this helps!
For those of you whinging at getting more than 15 species, the best way forward is to get in touch with the nearest county moth recoding group and learn from others. Practice makes perfect - I had a tough 1st year in Warwickshire in 1990 - my first ever moth night was in a FC (now FE) wood near Coventry, with the Warks. Moth Group led by David Brown on a warm late July evening. There were around 15 mv light traps set, and over 25 people in attendance - the night's list produced 151 species. I was totally blown away by the diversity, but could only recognise a few of the species at the next event a few weeks later. So many new species each time. It was not until I started with my own trap (using a 15W low energy bulb) the following January that I really managed to get to grips with species i-d. By then I'd been given pointers on how to i-d (using the patterns - placement of stripes [fasciae], spots [stigmata] and streaks) and resting postures, courtesy of the country moth group, so looking up species in Skinner became easier, and as I started at the beginning of the year I was having to look up only one or two "new" species each time. I still took upto an hour to i-d some species, but with practice at going through Skinner, it soon became much easier to get a feel for the place to search and also to get a feel for the "jizz" of the species - also a helpful clue to i-d a species on many occassions.
Now I regularly get a trap full of moths when I'm recording here in Hong Kong. Any time between March and October can produce on average 200 species in one 125W mv trap within a well wooded locality, often upto 300 species in April and between August and mid-October. The most species I've seen in one site (this happened to be using 2 x 125W mv Robinson traps) was 470 species - it took, even with a digital voice recorder, nearly two hours to empty the traps! Even then I don't know how many species, especially the smaller species, I missed.
All moth enthusiasts have had to start at the bottom, learning how to come to terms with the sheer diversity of species. Being methodical helps, as does being observant of the smallest detail. However, I would suspect that most moth-ers would say that the best way of learning is by getting out into the moths' world and practice your i-d skills as often as possible.
Enough rambling from me for a while - I must get back to book writing (the down side of doing fieldwork in a geographical area with no field or shelf guide!).
cheers,
Roger.
Mabel said:
Hi Mabel,
If I may, I would like to ask what are your expectations as a newcomer to the world of moths? Your answer may well account for what you are actually seeing and how you interpret what is a large or small moth - everything is relative and out here in Hong Kong a large moth would dwarf even some of the biggest species seen in GB & I. In all honesty scale is important in getting people's attention and the revolution in digital photography that has taken place in the last few years has allowed even the very tiniest of moths to be given the large screen treatment, allowing us to truely be amazed by the variety of colours and patterns that would otherwise be missed. Seeing the same species at real scale can often be a disappointment at first, if you have seen good macrophotos of pretty, small moths beforehand. Please don't be disheartened. The use of a magnifying glass or handlens will greatly enhance your experience of the moth world.
I hope this helps!
For those of you whinging at getting more than 15 species, the best way forward is to get in touch with the nearest county moth recoding group and learn from others. Practice makes perfect - I had a tough 1st year in Warwickshire in 1990 - my first ever moth night was in a FC (now FE) wood near Coventry, with the Warks. Moth Group led by David Brown on a warm late July evening. There were around 15 mv light traps set, and over 25 people in attendance - the night's list produced 151 species. I was totally blown away by the diversity, but could only recognise a few of the species at the next event a few weeks later. So many new species each time. It was not until I started with my own trap (using a 15W low energy bulb) the following January that I really managed to get to grips with species i-d. By then I'd been given pointers on how to i-d (using the patterns - placement of stripes [fasciae], spots [stigmata] and streaks) and resting postures, courtesy of the country moth group, so looking up species in Skinner became easier, and as I started at the beginning of the year I was having to look up only one or two "new" species each time. I still took upto an hour to i-d some species, but with practice at going through Skinner, it soon became much easier to get a feel for the place to search and also to get a feel for the "jizz" of the species - also a helpful clue to i-d a species on many occassions.
Now I regularly get a trap full of moths when I'm recording here in Hong Kong. Any time between March and October can produce on average 200 species in one 125W mv trap within a well wooded locality, often upto 300 species in April and between August and mid-October. The most species I've seen in one site (this happened to be using 2 x 125W mv Robinson traps) was 470 species - it took, even with a digital voice recorder, nearly two hours to empty the traps! Even then I don't know how many species, especially the smaller species, I missed.
All moth enthusiasts have had to start at the bottom, learning how to come to terms with the sheer diversity of species. Being methodical helps, as does being observant of the smallest detail. However, I would suspect that most moth-ers would say that the best way of learning is by getting out into the moths' world and practice your i-d skills as often as possible.
Enough rambling from me for a while - I must get back to book writing (the down side of doing fieldwork in a geographical area with no field or shelf guide!).
cheers,
Roger.
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Those very valid points by Roger not withstanding, at this time of year most southerly places in the UK should be able to get I'd have thought at least 20+ macros (probably Mabel, being new, associates moths with macros rather than macros and micros, which tends to be more experienced people). Dublin isn't so far north that you'll get nothing there I'd have thought?? I don't know if you're rural or urban, but I do know of some people in Ireland who get quite spectacular results (Angus!), but then they tend to be rural, not urban, hence my question.
I suspect you need to have another look at your trap - you hint that you built it yourself? Speaking from experience, my first home-built one wasn't very good (a skinner type model) and it was only when I decided to go all out and build a robinson trap that it all fell into place for me. But then I've seen skinners used elsewhere and they can work great, so it's really all in the trap, the locale and the weather.
Weatherwise, cloudy (so you can't see the stars ie it won't get too cold AND moths can't see the moon), still (anything above about 20 mph reduces the catch a lot), and warm at night (above 12 degrees works best for me). Rain matters but not as much as I'd have thought, ie very light rain usually means huge catches for me. Moon phase also, best catches are any quarter other than those surrounding the full moon.
Location-wise, I'd say rural, with lots of trees and/or bushes nearby, no other competing lightsources and no large rivers/lakes nearby are probably the best (just because air tends to be slightly cooler over lakes and rivers). You want to be situated near nectar & flowers that they feed on at night since they'll come there anyway, but then not every nectar feeder is attracted to lights. My profoundly uneducated guess would be that urban might actually be better during the autumn and winter months as the temperature stays higher there at those times?
Won't bother discussing trap details, I'd suggest that maybe you post a few pictures of the trap takeen from a few different angles and I'm sure that any flaws (easily made) will easily be spotted by all the other people posting here with suggestions how to rectify etc.
regards,
Johan
I suspect you need to have another look at your trap - you hint that you built it yourself? Speaking from experience, my first home-built one wasn't very good (a skinner type model) and it was only when I decided to go all out and build a robinson trap that it all fell into place for me. But then I've seen skinners used elsewhere and they can work great, so it's really all in the trap, the locale and the weather.
Weatherwise, cloudy (so you can't see the stars ie it won't get too cold AND moths can't see the moon), still (anything above about 20 mph reduces the catch a lot), and warm at night (above 12 degrees works best for me). Rain matters but not as much as I'd have thought, ie very light rain usually means huge catches for me. Moon phase also, best catches are any quarter other than those surrounding the full moon.
Location-wise, I'd say rural, with lots of trees and/or bushes nearby, no other competing lightsources and no large rivers/lakes nearby are probably the best (just because air tends to be slightly cooler over lakes and rivers). You want to be situated near nectar & flowers that they feed on at night since they'll come there anyway, but then not every nectar feeder is attracted to lights. My profoundly uneducated guess would be that urban might actually be better during the autumn and winter months as the temperature stays higher there at those times?
Won't bother discussing trap details, I'd suggest that maybe you post a few pictures of the trap takeen from a few different angles and I'm sure that any flaws (easily made) will easily be spotted by all the other people posting here with suggestions how to rectify etc.
regards,
Johan
Surreybirder
Ken Noble
You're suddenly becoming quite prolific, Johan!Johan J said:
Let me know if you do fix up a moth night. There's just a chance I might be able to come.
The one point I'd query in your interesting statement is the bit about being near water. There are, of course, some species that are associated with water such as the china-marks and some of the wainscots. So, as with birding, those who want to build up a big list need to visit different habitats.
Apart from diurnal observations I've only mothed in my garden so far but I'm still finding plenty to amuse me. Eg c28 species by 11 pm last night.
Ken
