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Chiffchaff/Iberian Chiffchaff/Willow Warbler‏ Portugal (1 Viewer)

robinchittenden

robinchittenden

Award winning wildlife photographer, writer, tour
You're monthly warbler ID test.

Anyone have an opinion about this bird?

Same bird in both photos taken in Portugal last week.

Has dark legs.

Thanks

Robin
 

Attachments

  • 004 Iberian Chiffchaff (Phylloscopus ibericus) Algarve Portugal PT October 2013 cp2 crs 130dpi.jpg
    004 Iberian Chiffchaff (Phylloscopus ibericus) Algarve Portugal PT October 2013 cp2 crs 130dpi.jpg
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  • 012 Iberian Chiffchaff (Phylloscopus ibericus) Algarve Portugal PT October 2013 cp2 crs 130dpi.jpg
    012 Iberian Chiffchaff (Phylloscopus ibericus) Algarve Portugal PT October 2013 cp2 crs 130dpi.jpg
    360.5 KB · Views: 422
Hello

It was hard to me to take this as a WW ! why it is not a Iberian CC? Still the pp rather short for Typical WW and complete dark ear coverts with uniform underparts with olive-grey upperparts. the sup. also fine with LCC as well as the pointed bill. Legs and tibia would also wrong for WW.

Omar
 
Hello Lou

The bird you attached is typical Siberian Chiffchaff the race tristis and it is not a Bonelli's Warbler or a Willow Warbler for me. Such individuals tricking us many times in our region?

the race acredula for WW has some certain points do not fit the OP wich stood against it such as the face pattern, the clean white cotton vent and particularly the toes and claws coloration.

Omar
 
Nice one Robin,

Did you come to a conclusion in the field?

I'm with Eduardo on this - without any detail its cosmetics in general don't incite the Ib Chiff in me ;) There were a fair few "acredula type" WW last week around Sagres - some paler and whiter than this bird - and quite large looking, at least to me.
 
Hi Omar,

Well, without re-reading detailed literature the PP looks a bit long for Ib Chiff - but mainly I find them rather richly green toned, including the mantle and all flight feathers so the brownish cast doesn't seem to fit at all. Doesn't the spacing of the primary tips on the folded wing look better for WW?

I'm open to persuasion though
 
Last edited:
Hello Simon

The PP seems to be impossible to separate the nominate acredula but mostly it has pale centered ear coverts, paler underparts which appear white in worn birds, legs in all conditions brown to pale grey with orange toes. Regarding the spacing, please see the attachments and you can exclude WW (still the P6 em. not ruled out but according to the spacing distance). the OP bird has quite space between em. of P4-P5 " in WW em. P4 would be close to P5". Beside I made some measurements for the side on wing and in somehow the T/Wt. ration is not even.

Omar
 

Attachments

  • Willow vs Chiffchaff.jpg
    Willow vs Chiffchaff.jpg
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  • WW vs IbCC.jpg
    WW vs IbCC.jpg
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Your analysis is much more in depth than mine - I couldn't make my mind up if the little bunch of primaries at the wingtip involve 2 or 3-4 - so I gave up!

My previous post stated short when I meant long - duh! sorry
 
Simon Wates said:
Did you come to a conclusion in the field?

.
Click to expand...

When your photographing birds you're not really looking at them. Busy trying to get the eye in focus etc etc. At the time I assumed it to be a Willow Warbler. Bright looking bird with yellow wash to breast etc.

It was only on seeing the dark legs in the photos that it raised an ID doubt.

Advice from elsewhere, in case it helps.

'with just three emarginations this should be a willow warbler....'

Thanks for all your comments so far.

Robin
 
Isn't one of the features of Iberian Chiff that the supercilium meets over the bill?

From what I can see of the OPs bird that is not the case. I too lean towards Willow Warbler.

Here is a photo I took a couple of years ago illustrating the point

Darrell
 

Attachments

  • Iberian-Chiffchaff-Rame-11.jpg
    Iberian-Chiffchaff-Rame-11.jpg
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robinchittenden said:
When your photographing birds you're not really looking at them. Busy trying to get the eye in focus etc etc. At the time I assumed it to be a Willow Warbler. Bright looking bird with yellow wash to breast etc.

It was only on seeing the dark legs in the photos that it raised an ID doubt.

Advice from elsewhere, in case it helps.

'with just three emarginations this should be a willow warbler....'

Thanks for all your comments so far.

Robin
Click to expand...

The leg colour isn't always reliable. This one was part of a group of willow warblers at a trough in Southern Spain last month. Most of them had the expected pale legs, but one at least had dark legs and feet, while this one had dark legs and pale feet.
 

Attachments

  • Willow-Warbler-(4)-web-smaller.jpg
    Willow-Warbler-(4)-web-smaller.jpg
    152.3 KB · Views: 238
Barred Wobbler said:
This one was part of a group of willow warblers at a trough in Southern Spain last month. Most of them had the expected pale legs, but one at least had dark legs and feet, while this one had dark legs and pale feet.
Click to expand...

Hello

The attached bird her is a typical western race trochilus which quite different than the nominate acredula which is not good for comparison? however, her you can see the mega PP and sup. and very clear P4-P5 close em. beside many other features.

Omar
 
Iraq Babbler said:
Hello

The attached bird her is a typical western race trochilus which quite different than the nominate acredula which is not good for comparison? however, her you can see the mega PP and sup. and very clear P4-P5 close em. beside many other features.

Omar
Click to expand...

I was responding to Robin's point that he'd seen the dark legs on his photograph and this caused him to doubt his earlier thoughts. I don't see where I was attempting to make any comparison with acredula, merely pointing out that some willow warblers can have dark legs.
 
Barred Wobbler said:
I was responding to Robin's point that he'd seen the dark legs on his photograph and this caused him to doubt his earlier thoughts. I don't see where I was attempting to make any comparison with acredula, merely pointing out that some willow warblers can have dark legs.
Click to expand...

Hello, I apologize for this, I did not get like the way you explained.

Motmot said:
Dark legged acredulas can't be too rare, Omar. I've seen them myself quite a few times. Dark cheeked Willows also occur. Very variable beasts Willows.

http://ibc.lynxeds.com/photo/willow-warbler-phylloscopus-trochilus/adult-branch
Click to expand...

Hello

Well, there is some points of this bird you attached, but if you compare the foot color of the attached bird with OP bird foot you will see that the last has complete dark legs and toes in Pic#1 ( For sure there are variations in WW vs. CC legs colors) which needs to combined with other ID notes to get the final score.

Omar
 
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