Now the SE is no more how long does the EII have ? (1 Viewer)

bdbender4 said:

Hi brock -

No, I was taken aback by the very well-produced comparison of porros over on the Swarovski forum:

http://www.tmfilmpro.com/alleseiten/reviews/binoculars/swarohabicht8x30w/swarohabicht8x30w.html

Check out the picture about 3/4 of the way down, and the accompanying text about "improve your Habicht - it is really worth it". I intend no disrespect to Mr. Tobias Mennle, who wrote the review, but I just don't get the point of buying expensive binoculars like the Habichts (or Nikon porros) and then having to kludge them up with crude eyepiece pads and cardboard lens shades. Ugly, fragile, awkward, and they don't fit in the case any more. (Unless, as noted, one is REALLY a die-hard porro fan.)

Personally, if I am going to spend many hundreds of dollars on something, I want it to be functional and well designed in the first place. So, for my use, that's what I did with the Zeiss HT's.

Click to expand...

I understand how you feel. If I had $2300 to spend on a bin, I might do the same thing, although I'd be more likely to buy a Swaro SLC-HD than an HT, I think. Not sure, I'd have to try the HT, I like the look of the ergonomics.

There's a guy on Cloudy Nights binocular forum named Claudio who made a T-shaped contraption that attaches to the SE's center post and comes out toward the EPs and rests on his head to keep his eyes at the right distance to prevent image blackouts.

I really like the view through the SE even though the eyecups are somewhat uncomfortable for me at close range where I have to pull in the IPD to get a circle and they eyecups pinch the bridge of my nose. I've got a possible fix for this, which requires using two pairs of eyecups, but so far I've only been able to secure one of the two pairs needed. Still working on it...

Claudio also made a washer out of rubber tubing and put it around the narrow and slow (relative to most modern roofs) SE focuser wheel to increase its size and thereby make it focus faster.

I have 3" extenders on the barrels of my SE to make it more comfortable to hold, and I already outlined the modifications I've made to the EII.

I think why we are willing to do these things is twofold: (1) As someone once said: The view through a good porro is hard to beat, and (2) as I said: The view through a good porro is hard to beat without spending 4x more on an alpha roof.

If someone were to say tomorrow, hey, Brock, I will trade you my $1799 Swaro 10x42 SLC-HD for your $599 (now $799) 8x32 SE, I wouldn't hesitate to make the trade, because the view through the SLC-HD is just as good and the eyecups are much more comfortable, and the ED glass does make a difference in roofs despite denials by those who can't see CA or have the ability to ignore it, but such a trade is never going to happen, and I would never pay $1800 for a bin. Not that I would judge anyone who would. "It's your life, and you do what you want..."

The Habicht, SE and EII are not without their quirks, but considering the bang you can get for the buck vs. an alpha roof, for some, it might be worth making modifications to save a bundle or because the prefer the 3-D effect of porros

That's not to say that roofs don't have their own eccentricities such as the astigmatism around the edge of the view in the Zeiss FL, the "rolling ball" in the SV EL and Absam Ring, Leica's spotty customer service and repair reputation, even the SLC-HD's focuser was a bit harder to turn in one direction than the other, some samples are worse in this regard than others. According to Stephen Ingraham, roofs are full of quirks. I will leave you with a quote from him:

"…in high end roofs, all of them offer waterproofness and durability, excellent optical performance...: you select your optics by finding the one whose particular set of individual quirks irritates you least or you buy Nikon Superior E porros, protect them in downpours..." -- Stephen Ingraham

<B>

bdbender4 said:

Check out the picture about 3/4 of the way down, and the accompanying text about "improve your Habicht - it is really worth it". I intend no disrespect to Mr. Tobias Mennle, who wrote the review, but I just don't get the point of buying expensive binoculars like the Habichts (or Nikon porros) and then having to kludge them up with crude eyepiece pads and cardboard lens shades. Ugly, fragile, awkward, and they don't fit in the case any more. (Unless, as noted, one is REALLY a die-hard porro fan.)

Click to expand...

Well, sometimes optics can be "improved" to fit you better. I've done that myself with the eyepieces of a scope I used for quite a long time (a Zeiss Jena Asiola 63/420) to make an excellent scope even better. People are different, and sometimes even small changes may make quite a difference in use.

That said, I never had the urge to alter the eyecups of my Nikons in any way - I don't have any problems at all with them, no blackouts, nothing. I can't even induce kidney beaning no matter how I try. I also don't think the SEs are that bad when viewing against the light, in fact, I think they're quite a bit better than most. However, I also think that most binoculars can be improved by adding lens shades, even the very best ones, like the Zeiss HT. I'd like manufacturers to add some threading in front of the objective lenses so that people can use screw-in les shades ...

As far as fitting the binoculars in the case is concerned, well, I just don't care. If they don't fit the case after some alterations I get myself a different one that fits.

Hermann

ceasar said:

Hi B.D.,

Have you ever had the opportunity to try any of them? I'd conservatively estimate that about 99.73% of the people who use them do not have to "kludge" them up to make them useful.

Bob

Click to expand...

I tried the SEs for a little while before putting them away, and the view was certainly nice.

A few months back I was curious to see what all the fuss about modern multicoated high-level porros was about. I had some inexpensive ones over the years before roofs took over the market, but never any really good ones. So I started combing the internet for reviews and discussions and such. I used the internet since it did not seem practicable for me to find either of the Nikons just to look through, and Eagle apparently does not carry the Habichts to try.

I quickly decided I wanted the SE's for sure so acquired those. I was still trying to find out more about the Habichts (since they at least are in production) when I ran across the comparison review that, as I mentioned, took me aback.

That's when I took a deep breath and started thinking about prices. (Sorry if it's crass to talk prices on this forum, but this was my train of thought.) $600 for Nikon SE's, same ball park for EII's on Ebay Japan, something like $900-$1000 for Habicht 8x30s - geez this is really starting to add up if I want all three for the True Modern Porro Experience. At that point the $2074 I subsequently paid for the HTs (including rebate) started to look - dare I say - reasonable?

I am neither an advanced birder nor binocular expert like y'all, but I am going to retire in a few years and am buying some essential expensive toys now while I still have an income. At least, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

bdbender4 said:

I tried the SEs for a little while before putting them away, and the view was certainly nice.

A few months back I was curious to see what all the fuss about modern multicoated high-level porros was about. I had some inexpensive ones over the years before roofs took over the market, but never any really good ones. So I started combing the internet for reviews and discussions and such. I used the internet since it did not seem practicable for me to find either of the Nikons just to look through, and Eagle apparently does not carry the Habichts to try.

I quickly decided I wanted the SE's for sure so acquired those. I was still trying to find out more about the Habichts (since they at least are in production) when I ran across the comparison review that, as I mentioned, took me aback.

That's when I took a deep breath and started thinking about prices. (Sorry if it's crass to talk prices on this forum, but this was my train of thought.) $600 for Nikon SE's, same ball park for EII's on Ebay Japan, something like $900-$1000 for Habicht 8x30s - geez this is really starting to add up if I want all three for the True Modern Porro Experience. At that point the $2074 I subsequently paid for the HTs (including rebate) started to look - dare I say - reasonable?

I am neither an advanced birder nor binocular expert like y'all, but I am going to retire in a few years and am buying some essential expensive toys now while I still have an income. At least, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Click to expand...

bdbender,

Paying as much for ONE roof as you would for the THREE top porros doesn't seem "reasonable" to me. Alphas are overpriced, IMO. Arek from allbions agrees with this regarding the SLC-HD, and history has proven him correct as that model was discontinued and replaced by a less expensive one (but still too expensive for my budget).

Scroll down to the summary

OTOH, if you are going to retire soon and you want buy one bin that will be buried along side you in your sarcophagus to use in the next life, then a bullet proof/worm proof, immersible to 20,000 leagues (for when the Nile overflows), premium quality alpha might be the way to go.

Being a porromaniac, there are not too many roofs that appeal to me, but there are a couple, one reasonably priced, one outrageously priced. Eventually, I hope to buy the reasonably priced roof (M7) once Nikon has fixed the QC problem. But in the meantime, I am quite content with my porros, my only desire being to upgrade from a gray body EII to a black body EII (again) to get the latest coatings and more robust armoring.

What matters is that the HT is the right bin for you and that you can afford it. Not everybody can, which is why Zeiss offers the Conquest HD and Terra ED. Something for everyone. Ditto for Nikon, which offers good choices at various price points, but alas no more SEs. It's the end of an era and the beginning of an error.

Enjoy your HTs!

Brock

brocknroller said:

There's a guy on Cloudy Nights binocular forum named Claudio who made a T-shaped contraption that attaches to the SE's center post and comes out toward the EPs and rests on his head to keep his eyes at the right distance to prevent image blackouts.

<B>

Click to expand...

Slightly OT :
Is it really worth the hassle?
There are so many fine binos out there, even at prices below € 1000,-, why make life more complicated?

bdbender: try them, buy one and be happy. Life is too short to worry about a binocular

So Brock, and for no other reason than mere curiosity, what are the few roofs that you enjoy? I respect your opinion and I enjoy all of your posts. In the past you have spoke of the 8x42 Fury, and except for a few of the obvious shortcomings of the Fury I agree as well. And so,what others do like?------Jim

Sarcophagus time!?

brock said (among other things):

OTOH, if you are going to retire soon and you want buy one bin that will be buried along side you in your sarcophagus to use in the next life, then a bullet proof/worm proof, immersible to 20,000 leagues (for when the Nile overflows), premium quality alpha might be the way to go.

Click to expand...

oetzi said:

Slightly OT :
Is it really worth the hassle?
There are so many fine binos out there, even at prices below € 1000,-, why make life more complicated?

bdbender: try them, buy one and be happy. Life is too short to worry about a binocular

Click to expand...

oetzi, ain't that the truth! I guess I had better turn my attention to finding the right sarcophagus like brock said - I haven't really given that very much thought...

hawken 12 said:

So Brock, and for no other reason than mere curiosity, what are the few roofs that you enjoy? I respect your opinion and I enjoy all of your posts. In the past you have spoke of the 8x42 Fury, and except for a few of the obvious shortcomings of the Fury I agree as well. And so,what others do like?------Jim

Click to expand...

Jim,

The "Magnificent 7" in order of preference:

Swarovski 10x42 SLC-HD (probably the 8x42 model, too, only 1 degree less AFOV)

Swarovski 8x32 EL WB (2009 model)

Nikon 7x42 EDG (haven't tried it, but based on my experience with the 10x42 model)

Nikon 8x30 M7(with no bare metal parts in the objective tubes)

Vortex 8x42 Fury (why did they discontinue this bin???)

Pentax 8x36 NV (~$200, it will never garner a thread with over 800 posts, but it's a competent performer for its price point)

Nikon 10x42 Prostaff (probably would not like the 8x42 model due to the narrowish FOV/AFOV, @ $225, another good "bang for the buck")

Brock

bdbender4 said:

brock said (among other things):



oetzi, ain't that the truth! I guess I had better turn my attention to finding the right sarcophagus like brock said - I haven't really given that very much thought...

Click to expand...

Thats easy, one size fits all
Otherwise, have a look at www.sarcophagus.com

bdbender4 said:

brock said (among other things):



oetzi, ain't that the truth! I guess I had better turn my attention to finding the right sarcophagus like brock said - I haven't really given that very much thought...

Click to expand...

Take your pick!

sarcophagi on the 'bay

:-O

<B>

So, i have been out of the loop for awhile, the SE is REALLY discontinued now?

jaymoynihan said:

So, i have been out of the loop for awhile, the SE is REALLY discontinued now?

Click to expand...

So it would seem. Please see post #36 above, et. seq.