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Binoculars for eyeglass wearers, over the decades (1 Viewer)

Pinewood

New York correspondent
United States
I have been thinking about how binocular manufacturers have addressed the problems eyeglass wearers have using binoculars. I have taken some fairly typical binoculars of the last 97 years as examples of this problem

If everyone had perfect eyesight, there would be no need for a dioptre setting on centre focussing [CF] binoculars. Manufacturers recognized that individuals had different sight in each eye, so dioptre setting was an early feature. If a user’s eyesight was not too far from perfect, the “reach” of the focussing mechanism might allow an eyeglass wearer to use a binocular. However, if one’s eyes were closely matched, there would be a need for only a small about of dioptre accommodation and the user could remove his specs and enjoy the binocular. In individual focussing [IF} binoculars, this was similarly accomplished.

If one had truly bad eyesight, there were three problems. First one might need his eyeglasses to find a target. Most users won’t keep a binocular at his eyes, while moving around. My own methodology is to scan with my eyes seeking something of interest. For those with bad eyesight removing the specs increases the chances of walking into something or tripping. The second problem was adequate focussing “reach” to bring a binocular to focus at infinity. Lastly, there is no accommodation for a user’s astigmatism.

My 1918 Basuch &Lomb 6x30 Signal Corps Model EE, an IF, has enough reach for someone needing a ±7 dioptre accommodation. So does my 1924 Zeiss 6x30 Silvarem, a CF. See photo

If a person had eyesight beyond the focussing accommodation or if he wants to see where he is walking, he needs to wear his glasses. Wearing glasses requires greater eye relief or bringing the eyeglasses closer to the eyepieces. Otherwise he might lose the full field of view. However, some severely myopic users may not experience that loss of FOV.

My 1936 Swiss Armėe Modell 6x24 binocular had collapsing eyecups, allowing an eyeglass wearer to bring his eye closer to the objective, by about 8 mm, and see much more of the field. As the Swiss had universal conscription, I imagine that allowing most soldiers to use a binocular effectively, was a paramount concern. By 1955, the Swiss Army no longer used collapsible eye cups, but the cups are very shallow, on my Swiss Armée Modell 6x30. See photo.

Apparently the U.S. and German military, during WWII, sourced binoculars with less accommodation and standard eyecups, like my Spencer 7x50. See photo. Each probably decided either that soldiers or sailors with inferior eyesight were not going to be looking through binoculars or that such soldiers or sailors could make do with a reduced FOV.

Another method was to sell shallow accessory eyecups which brought the eye closer to the objectives. I have been informed that Bausch & Lomb did just that for their Zephyr line. This allowed an eyeglass wearer to modify the binocular for his own need. Incidentally, I have not been able to find such eye cups, but I did see a B&L clone from Mirakel furnished with such eye cups on that electronic auction site. Leitz/Leica did offer replacement eye cups with a small fold down for their old Porro binoculars but no longer do so. The picture shows two Binuxit 8x30 binoculars: one with the standard eyecups and one with the fold down cups.

My 1918 Basuch &Lomb 6x30 Signal Corps Model EE, an IF, has enough reach for someone needing a ±7 dioptre accommodation. So does my 1924 Zeiss 6x30 Silvarem, a CF. See the first photo

If a person had eyesight beyond the focussing accommodation or if he wants to see where he is walking, he needs to wear his glasses. Wearing glasses requires greater eye relief or bringing the eyeglasses closer to the eyepieces, while maintaining the full Field of View[FOV]. However, some severely myopic users may not experience that loss of FOV.

My 1936 Swiss Armyėe Modell 6x24 binocular had collapsing eyecups, allowing an eyeglass wearer to bring his eye closer to the objective, by about 8 mm, and see the whole field. As the Swiss had universal conscription, I imagine that allowing most soldiers to use a binocular effectively, was a paramount concern. use the binoculars. By 1955, the Swiss Army no longer used collapsible eye cups, but the cups are very shallow, on my Swiss Armée Modell 6x30. See the second photo.

Apparently the U.S. and German military, during WWII, sourced binoculars with less accommodation and standard eyecups, like my Spencer 7x50. Each probably decided that soldiers or sailors with inferior eyesight were not going to
use a binocular or would have to make do with a narrow FOV. See the third photo.

Another method was to sell shallow accessory eyecups which brought the eye closer to the objectives. I have been informed that Bausch & Lomb did just that for their Zephyr line. This allowed an eyeglass wearer to modify the binocular for his own need. Incidentally, I have not been able to find such eye cups, but I did see a B&L clone from Mirakel furnished with such eye cups, pictured on that electronic auction site. Leitz/Leica did offer replacement eye cups with a small fold down for their old Porro binoculars but no longer do so. The fourth photo shows two Binuxit 8x30 binoculars: one with the standard eyecups and one with the fold down cups.

Finally, the manufacturers addressed the problems of having long eye relief. With fold down or collapsible eyecups, a binoculars were available which allowed eyeglass wearers and those who did not need them to use binoculars. As far as I know, Zeiss was the first manufacturer to make such binoculars, almost more than 50 years, ago in their 8x30B. “B” is short for Briller, German for eyeglasses. So a user with astigmatism could get full use of his binoculars. the "B" model had a narrow FOV than the standard 8x30 from the West German Zeiss line.

Every now and then, I want to take off my glasses and look unhindered through a binocular, even with my astigmatism. Most binoculars no longer focus at infinity for those needing large diopter correction, say ±6. I suppose that manufacturers have decided that with long eye relief, those with poor eyesight will be using their specs. A couple of years ago, when my eyesight was a little worse, my Zeiss ClasiC 7x42 BGAT, on the left in the fifth photo, almost allowed me to focus to infinity without my specs, when my eyesight was poorer; nowadays it does focus to infinity for me. My Zeiss FL 8x32 allows me to focus as far as 165 meters, not quite to infinity. See the fifth photo. Its dioptre adjustment is specified at ±4, but I think one can get a little more. See photo. The FL is a very nice optic, managing to have sufficient eye relief, suppression of chromatic aberration, compact size and an FOV of 140m at 1000m, just about 8º. I do not know if that is the best current binocular for eyeglass wearers but it does work nicely.

All photos made with an iPad.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :scribe:
 

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Hi Arthur,
Thanks for the interesting post.
Some of it is duplicated towards the end.

I was wondering if someone with 7 dioptre or more difference in the two eyes can actually get binocular vision.
What are the limits of human vision and the brain here?
I can merge 7x and 8x monoculars at least centrally, but maybe not at the edges.

An opthalmologist might know.
 
Thanks

Hi Arthur,
Thanks for the interesting post.
Some of it is duplicated towards the end.

I was wondering if someone with 7 dioptre or more difference in the two eyes can actually get binocular vision.
What are the limits of human vision and the brain here?
I can merge 7x and 8x monoculars at least centrally, but maybe not at the edges.

An opthalmologist might know.

Hello Binastro,

Thanks, I removed the repetition.

I did not mean a seven dioptre difference between the eyes. Rather I meant correction from normal. My eyes are matched to within a half dioptre.I need -4.25 and -4.75 dioptre correction.

Looking around my collection, I think that the B&L Zephyr 8x30 has the most correction of my binoculars.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
 
The Minolta Compact AF 8 8x23 6.5 deg has correction to about minus 12 dioptres.
It actually works very well, autofocussing almost instantly in good light with super resolution.
Wierd, I admit. I am surprised it was not improved even more.
And you need it switched on, so battery might drain.
 
Hi Arthur,

Thanks for opening the thread, as well as your interesting insights. It has occurred to me on several occasions that the nasty little secret of the binocular trade is how hard it has struggled (to this day) with the opto-mechanical design implications of eyesight variation and spectacle use. For example, the Swift Audubon binocular was introduced to the world in 1958 by Swift & Anderson, but research has shown that during the ensuing four years annual changes were made to the eyecup design. It's quite remarkable. By 1965 they hadn't even considered folding rubber eyecups; it was all done with metal or phenolic parts that were easily lost. Cheap rubber eyecups were really an innovation in their day. (I'm not suggesting Swift was the first.)

Having reached the point, several years ago, when it just became too darned annoying to take my glasses off to use binoculars, eye relief became my #1 selection criterion. Curiously, it's almost never included in binocular ratings.

Best for a happy New Year,
Ed
 
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Hi Arthur, thank you for an interesting post, I think the British company, ROSS once made a porro binocular called the spectrascope specifically for spectacle wearers.
 
Does anyone remember the eyepiece scars scratched into your eyeglasses as a result of removing the eyecups?
 
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Does anyone remember the eyepiece scars scratched into your eyeglasses as a result of removing the eyecups?

I have rings on my eye glass lens from the rubber and plastic eyepieces. Most don't realize just how abrasive rubber and plastic are. They dull knives real well.
 
Hi Arthur, thank you for an interesting post, I think the British company, ROSS once made a porro binocular called the spectrascope specifically for spectacle wearers.

"Does anyone remember the eyepiece scars scratched into your eyeglasses as a result of removing the eyecups?"-Pileatus

"I have rings on my eye glass lens from the rubber and plastic eyepieces. Most don't realize just how abrasive rubber and plastic are. They dull knives real well"-Old Forty-five.

Hello Old Forty Five and Pileatus,

I never had any problems with plastic, bakelite or hard rubber; and I never removed the eyecups except once. I tried gluing "O" rings around the threads on a B&L Zephyr but they did not stay put.

Hello Bencw,

So you recall the specs on the Ross Spectroscope?

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
 
Very nice post, Arthur. Some comments. I'm a dedicated eye glass wearer, not by choice but because of astigmatism. Even at age 80 my corrected vision is 20/20. I have been dealing with the reduced FOV for almost 60 years, and have jury rigged countless number of binoculars to try to get closer.

Some have worked and some have been disasters. My collection of shallow eye cups are for the Zepher 7x35 (recently that pair went to my grandson's fiance); a pair of Canon 7x35 porros with two sets of eye cups (the last generation made by Canon); and my Bushnell Rangemaster 7x35 Fuji made (the silver ring model and arguably the best wide angle ever made) with shallow eye cups almost allowing the full FOV of 525 feet.

The Tamron made Bushnell Rangemaster features shallow eye cups but these are illusory, not allowing eyeglass wearers to get close enough for the full view.

You mention the Swiss Army 8x30 with sliding eyecups. I have the 1977 model, and I find with the eye cups down, almost the full FOV is available.

Actually that model is on loan to a young foreign exchange student from Switzerland right now. He came to Montana this past fall in time for hunting season, and an 18 year old without binoculars in this country is behind the power curve. I heard he was tagging along with some of his high school buddies on hunts without binoculars, so I contacted his host family, and they sent him to me. You should have seen his eyes sparkle when I handed him the 8x30, and told him it was his to use as long as he was in Montana.

I suspect that my old Zeiss Dialyt 7x42 has become my favorite because how well it accommodates eye glasses.

Again, a very nice, informative post.

John
 
Hello Bencw,

So you recall the specs on the Ross Spectroscope?

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

Hi Arthur, sorry, I got the name totally wrong, it is called spectaross, here is a photo I found, an 8x40 made between 1953 to 1966, you can see it has a rubber brow pad and I believe twist or pull out type sleeves on the eye cups, but I cant find any spec's anywhere.
 

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Hello Bencw,

Very nice eye cups, although the rubber bumper seems superfluous. I am guessing that the eye cups were essentially a workaround its indifferent eye relief, just as the accessory cups on other binoculars.

I have been considering asking someone to turn down the eye cups on my Zephyrs.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
 
:cat:
I have been thinking about how binocular manufacturers have addressed the problems eyeglass wearers have using binoculars. I have taken some fairly typical binoculars of the last 97 years as examples of this problem

If everyone had perfect eyesight, there would be no need for a dioptre setting on centre focussing [CF] binoculars. Manufacturers recognized that individuals had different sight in each eye, so dioptre setting was an early feature. If a user’s eyesight was not too far from perfect, the “reach” of the focussing mechanism might allow an eyeglass wearer to use a binocular. However, if one’s eyes were closely matched, there would be a need for only a small about of dioptre accommodation and the user could remove his specs and enjoy the binocular. In individual focussing [IF} binoculars, this was similarly accomplished.

If one had truly bad eyesight, there were three problems. First one might need his eyeglasses to find a target. Most users won’t keep a binocular at his eyes, while moving around. My own methodology is to scan with my eyes seeking something of interest. For those with bad eyesight removing the specs increases the chances of walking into something or tripping. The second problem was adequate focussing “reach” to bring a binocular to focus at infinity. Lastly, there is no accommodation for a user’s astigmatism.

My 1918 Basuch &Lomb 6x30 Signal Corps Model EE, an IF, has enough reach for someone needing a ±7 dioptre accommodation. So does my 1924 Zeiss 6x30 Silvarem, a CF. See photo

If a person had eyesight beyond the focussing accommodation or if he wants to see where he is walking, he needs to wear his glasses. Wearing glasses requires greater eye relief or bringing the eyeglasses closer to the eyepieces. Otherwise he might lose the full field of view. However, some severely myopic users may not experience that loss of FOV.

My 1936 Swiss Armėe Modell 6x24 binocular had collapsing eyecups, allowing an eyeglass wearer to bring his eye closer to the objective, by about 8 mm, and see much more of the field. As the Swiss had universal conscription, I imagine that allowing most soldiers to use a binocular effectively, was a paramount concern. By 1955, the Swiss Army no longer used collapsible eye cups, but the cups are very shallow, on my Swiss Armée Modell 6x30. See photo.

Apparently the U.S. and German military, during WWII, sourced binoculars with less accommodation and standard eyecups, like my Spencer 7x50. See photo. Each probably decided either that soldiers or sailors with inferior eyesight were not going to be looking through binoculars or that such soldiers or sailors could make do with a reduced FOV.

Another method was to sell shallow accessory eyecups which brought the eye closer to the objectives. I have been informed that Bausch & Lomb did just that for their Zephyr line. This allowed an eyeglass wearer to modify the binocular for his own need. Incidentally, I have not been able to find such eye cups, but I did see a B&L clone from Mirakel furnished with such eye cups on that electronic auction site. Leitz/Leica did offer replacement eye cups with a small fold down for their old Porro binoculars but no longer do so. The picture shows two Binuxit 8x30 binoculars: one with the standard eyecups and one with the fold down cups.

My 1918 Basuch &Lomb 6x30 Signal Corps Model EE, an IF, has enough reach for someone needing a ±7 dioptre accommodation. So does my 1924 Zeiss 6x30 Silvarem, a CF. See the first photo

If a person had eyesight beyond the focussing accommodation or if he wants to see where he is walking, he needs to wear his glasses. Wearing glasses requires greater eye relief or bringing the eyeglasses closer to the eyepieces, while maintaining the full Field of View[FOV]. However, some severely myopic users may not experience that loss of FOV.

My 1936 Swiss Armyėe Modell 6x24 binocular had collapsing eyecups, allowing an eyeglass wearer to bring his eye closer to the objective, by about 8 mm, and see the whole field. As the Swiss had universal conscription, I imagine that allowing most soldiers to use a binocular effectively, was a paramount concern. use the binoculars. By 1955, the Swiss Army no longer used collapsible eye cups, but the cups are very shallow, on my Swiss Armée Modell 6x30. See the second photo.

Apparently the U.S. and German military, during WWII, sourced binoculars with less accommodation and standard eyecups, like my Spencer 7x50. Each probably decided that soldiers or sailors with inferior eyesight were not going to
use a binocular or would have to make do with a narrow FOV. See the third photo.

Another method was to sell shallow accessory eyecups which brought the eye closer to the objectives. I have been informed that Bausch & Lomb did just that for their Zephyr line. This allowed an eyeglass wearer to modify the binocular for his own need. Incidentally, I have not been able to find such eye cups, but I did see a B&L clone from Mirakel furnished with such eye cups, pictured on that electronic auction site. Leitz/Leica did offer replacement eye cups with a small fold down for their old Porro binoculars but no longer do so. The fourth photo shows two Binuxit 8x30 binoculars: one with the standard eyecups and one with the fold down cups.

Finally, the manufacturers addressed the problems of having long eye relief. With fold down or collapsible eyecups, a binoculars were available which allowed eyeglass wearers and those who did not need them to use binoculars. As far as I know, Zeiss was the first manufacturer to make such binoculars, almost more than 50 years, ago in their 8x30B. “B” is short for Briller, German for eyeglasses. So a user with astigmatism could get full use of his binoculars. the "B" model had a narrow FOV than the standard 8x30 from the West German Zeiss line.

Every now and then, I want to take off my glasses and look unhindered through a binocular, even with my astigmatism. Most binoculars no longer focus at infinity for those needing large diopter correction, say ±6. I suppose that manufacturers have decided that with long eye relief, those with poor eyesight will be using their specs. A couple of years ago, when my eyesight was a little worse, my Zeiss ClasiC 7x42 BGAT, on the left in the fifth photo, almost allowed me to focus to infinity without my specs, when my eyesight was poorer; nowadays it does focus to infinity for me. My Zeiss FL 8x32 allows me to focus as far as 165 meters, not quite to infinity. See the fifth photo. Its dioptre adjustment is specified at ±4, but I think one can get a little more. See photo. The FL is a very nice optic, managing to have sufficient eye relief, suppression of chromatic aberration, compact size and an FOV of 140m at 1000m, just about 8º. I do not know if that is the best current binocular for eyeglass wearers but it does work nicely.

All photos made with an iPad.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :scribe:


Hi Arthur:

Thanks for inviting me to see this thread and asking for comments. I doubt that I can make any real contributions. Thus, I will just offer some observations.

—Regarding your 1918 6x30: I had the privilege (not) of working on two of these in the same year. The experience took me to the edge of cursing! :C

There was no eccentric ring collimation. Instead, there were 4 through-the-body screws for EACH prism. Thus, screwing up the collimation process was more likely than not. That was prominently mentioned in my paper.

—I think you will find that your Spencer originated with Bausch & Lomb. It was the US Navy’s Mk 28. I forget the MK for the Army (I think it was their Mk 13) as my tech manual has been packed away since the move and I probably won’t see it until the spring, when I get back to straightening out the garage.

—Knowledge of one’s dioptric settings is really important for watchstanders at night. But, really, how many people actually use them? And when they do, basing the setting on what that believe to be the needed setting, how many CHANGE that to something that more accommodates the here and now.

—Although the “reach” (more commonly called “throw” by the US military) of some binos can’t accommodate some users, this can usually be corrected by recessing the objective lenses. Cory can make short order of this operation. The numerals won’t be where they should be. But, which do you prefer, playing with meaningless numerals or viewing birds?

—US sailors with poor vision did not have to worry about losing their field of view with the Square D (Sard) Mk 43, 6x42 with its 12 degree field.

—The 3 most common reasons binos were brought to me for repair were:

1) Collimation issues
2) Moisture damage
3) Screw-up eyecups that wouldn’t stay where they were put. I think the industry must be working on this, but, as Dirty Harry might say: “Do you feel lucky?” :cat:

Cheers,

Bill

PS How do I select a PORTION of a post to reply to without copying the whole thing as above? I know I can cut and paste, but I would rather it stay in that cute ‘lil box.
 
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:cat:


Hi Arthur:

Thanks for inviting me to see this thread and asking for comments. I doubt that I can make any real contributions. Thus, I will just offer some observations.

...
—Although the “reach” (more commonly called “throw” by the US military) of some binos can’t accommodate some users, this can usually be corrected by recessing the objective lenses. Cory can make short order of this operation. The numerals won’t be where they should be. But, which do you prefer, playing with meaningless numerals or viewing birds?

—US sailors with poor vision did not have to worry about losing their field of view with the Square D (Sard) Mk 43, 6x42 with its 12 degree field.

—The 3 most common reasons binos were brought to me for repair were:

1) Collimation issues
2) Moisture damage
3) Screw-up eyecups that wouldn’t stay where they were put. I think the industry must be working on this, but, as Dirty Harry might say: “Do you feel lucky?” :cat:

Cheers,

Bill

PS How do I select a PORTION of a post to reply to without copying the whole thing as above? I know I can cut and paste, but I would rather it stay in that cute ‘lil box.

Hello Bill,

I thank you for your comments. I have no desire to cheat Cory of work, but I would like a binocular to work for me, straight out of the box. If it needs to fixed, it must be broken.

If only I had a Sard 6x42...

When you quote someone in a reply, just delete what you do not need repeated. Be careful not to delete and "[/QUOTE]" at the end of the quoted post and "[quote=" ]etc,, at the beginning of the quote,

Happy New Year to you and to all,
Arthur :hi:
 
When you quote someone in a reply, just delete what you do not need repeated.

Happy New Year to you and to all,
Arthur :hi:

'Like I actually knew what I was doing, huh?

I would love to own a Sard 6x42. But, it is really not all some people think it is. Does it have a 12 degree? Yes. But, some folks get weak in the knees over an ultra-wide field, even if that field starts getting soft less than 1/2 way from the axis. I would prefer a smaller, crisp field. But that's just me. :cat:

Cheers,

Bill
 
The Germans, as was often the case in optics, were pioneers in the development of long eye-relief binoculars. During WW II Zeiss/blc made a famous 7x50 "gasmask" model for the Kriegsmarine with retracting rubber eyecups and special long eye-relief oculars: https://www.flickr.com/photos/binoc...4Js-e3p2RX-qw7XSB-eaZHiC-hwqUJg-e6Ahpc-e6A6r6 which could also be used by those wearing goggles or eyeglasses. And in the last years of the war Leitz/beh produced a fairly rare wide angle 10x50 with conventional plastic eyecups but also with long eye-relief and quite usable by eye-glass wearers: https://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwpg/16093415939/in/photolist-qw7XSB-qyRYT7
 
The Germans, as was often the case in optics, were pioneers in the development of long eye-relief binoculars. During WW II Zeiss/blc made a famous 7x50 "gasmask" model for the Kriegsmarine with retracting rubber eyecups and special long eye-relief oculars: https://www.flickr.com/photos/binoc...4Js-e3p2RX-qw7XSB-eaZHiC-hwqUJg-e6Ahpc-e6A6r6 which could also be used by those wearing goggles or eyeglasses. And in the last years of the war Leitz/beh produced a fairly rare wide angle 10x50 with conventional plastic eyecups but also with long eye-relief and quite usable by eye-glass wearers: https://www.flickr.com/photos/binocwpg/16093415939/in/photolist-qw7XSB-qyRYT7

Hello LPT,

Thanks for your contribution to this thread, and my best wishes for the New Year.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
 
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