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Coal, Willow or Marsh ? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JohnZ
- Start date
halftwo
Wird Batcher
Johnz,
Coal tit would have obvious wing bars at this angle. So that leaves the other two.
Unfortunately this bird's obscured partly but my gut feeling is Marsh. Willow in comparison have a bull-necked big-headed appearance & more untidy bibs ( and as I'm typing this you can bet that someone else is saying its Willow!)
Willow also have a pale wing panel - which I think you wold see something of even though this one's part hiden.
H
Coal tit would have obvious wing bars at this angle. So that leaves the other two.
Unfortunately this bird's obscured partly but my gut feeling is Marsh. Willow in comparison have a bull-necked big-headed appearance & more untidy bibs ( and as I'm typing this you can bet that someone else is saying its Willow!)
Willow also have a pale wing panel - which I think you wold see something of even though this one's part hiden.
H
bitterntwisted
Graham Howard Shortt
White cheek, bull neck, apparent light wing panel, diffuse bib mean my money's on Willow, although without a call I can never be sure of Marsh vs. Willow.
Graham
Graham
bitterntwisted
Graham Howard Shortt
halftwo said:
LOL! Sorry, mate! I really didn't mean to do that!
Johnz, I think this shows how hard these two are. My most reliable ID feature if they don't call is to find out which of Marsh and Willow is actually recorded locally, as the two only rarely co-exist. And when coming to a conclusion I would weight halftwo's opinion heavier than mine because he knows more stuuf about birds than what I do.
Graham
bitterntwisted
Graham Howard Shortt
deborah4 said:
I've blown this up (a halftwo trick!) and counted feathers and the light couloured panel on the wing, Johnz, is in the right place to be the pale panel that Willow Tit normally shows (and not a photographic illusion) Unfortunately I cannot read the leg-ring at any magnification!
Where was the photo taken? Habitat is a useful pointer, although never conclusive, with Willow Tit being more likely to be found in alder and willow carr near water and Marsh Tit more likely to be found in more mature, dryer deciduous woodland.
Graham
colonelboris
Right way up again
I'm siding against Bitterntwisted merely because he humiliated me elsewhere on this forum...
I'll go willow as the cap doesn't seem to meet where the brown starts on the back.
I'll go willow as the cap doesn't seem to meet where the brown starts on the back.
bitterntwisted
Graham Howard Shortt
tarzzz said:
They're even harder in Britain than in Scandinavia, Ben, as we have Willow Poecile montanus kleinschmidtii versus Marsh Poecile palustris dresseri. The traits of these subspecies make the brown/grey distinction less reliable or even invalid.
Graham
bitterntwisted
Graham Howard Shortt
colonelboris said:
Yeah, but I said Willow, too, Tony! And really sorry about the 'humiliation'. The schadenfreude will come soon for you, I'm sure!
Graham
Hi all,
Seeing as a) the races of both species in the UK really are fiendishly difficult unless calling, and b) I don't get to see either here in Ireland, then I'd be VERY slow to call this from one photo alone!
The head doesn't look proportionally large, and this is perhaps pro-Marsh, but then the bib is more in line with that of a Willow Tit. Are there any other photos?
Regards,
Harry
Seeing as a) the races of both species in the UK really are fiendishly difficult unless calling, and b) I don't get to see either here in Ireland, then I'd be VERY slow to call this from one photo alone!
The head doesn't look proportionally large, and this is perhaps pro-Marsh, but then the bib is more in line with that of a Willow Tit. Are there any other photos?
Regards,
Harry
JohnZ
Well-known member
The piccie was taken at Bough Beech near the feeders which in turn is fairly near water. There are lots of birds there, particularly Great and Blue Tits, and I just caught this bird out of the corner of my eye. Ropey piccie I know but as you can see he/she was not too keen to have their photo taken ! I only had about 15 seconds to get the poor shot that I managed.
I have never stimulated such a response before as I usually put up shots of birds that a three year old should know !
I have never stimulated such a response before as I usually put up shots of birds that a three year old should know !
bitterntwisted
Graham Howard Shortt
halftwo said:
I got that initial impression but then blew it up and counted off feather by feather and I reckon there are nine dark primaries and then the light secondaries, not tertials. The birds wing is tucked further back around away from us than it first seems? Please double-check as I'd be happy to be wrong.
This would be a lot easier with a couple more photos, no?
Graham
bitterntwisted
Graham Howard Shortt
JohnZ said:
Told you that habitat was never reliable. According to the Kent Ornithological Society at http://www.kentos.org.uk/Bough Beech/BOUGHBEECHCHECKLIST2006..htm, Bough Beech reservoir records only Marsh Tits.
This is probably a more reliable ID than our opinions, with the exception of halftwo who I thought would be right! Bah!
Graham
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Interesting picture, but says Marsh to me. That said, its a picture, not a bird so to speak 
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