• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Marsh Tit or Willow Tit? (1 Viewer)

SueRob

SueRob

Well-known member
Can anyone help? These three very poor photos are all I have of a bird I saw at Lynford Arboretum on Sunday. I didn't hear it call so couldn't be guided by the sound. I couldn't see the bib at all, but the head was large, there was no apparent shine on the black cap and there were obvious lighter secondaries.

I would value your expert opinions - if it's a Willow then it's a lifer for me!

Many thanks,

Sue
 

Attachments

  • ID question 1 small.jpg
    ID question 1 small.jpg
    76.2 KB · Views: 241
  • ID question 2 small.jpg
    ID question 2 small.jpg
    73.8 KB · Views: 215
  • ID question 3 small.jpg
    ID question 3 small.jpg
    92.7 KB · Views: 213
As no-one else has replied yet, I will have a punt!

As you have already noted "large head" bull necked look & pale wing patch, I would say Willow Tit.
But I`m ready to be proved wrong!
 
A real tough call, but I'd go with Willow Tit as well.

Apart from the ID features already mentioned I tend to find Willow are more greyish and generally more scruffy looking which fits in with this birds bullish neck and apparent pale wing panel.
 
SueRob said:
Can anyone help? These three very poor photos are all I have of a bird I saw at Lynford Arboretum on Sunday. I didn't hear it call so couldn't be guided by the sound. I couldn't see the bib at all, but the head was large, there was no apparent shine on the black cap and there were obvious lighter secondaries.

I would value your expert opinions - if it's a Willow then it's a lifer for me!

Many thanks,

Sue
Click to expand...
Pale wing patch seems to indicate Willow Tit. I was at Lynford on Saturday + saw Marsh Tit with Great Tits in Black Poplar in paddocks where we had 11Hawfinches + 3 Bullfinches feeding on nettle seeds below.
 
This is a very tough call indeed, and I wouldn't advise you to tick it as anything, just chalk it down to 'the one that got away'.

However, I'm about 90% it's a Marsh Tit.

In pic 1 there is no hint of a pale wing panel, although the cheek looks good for willow.

in pic 2 there is a wing panel, but if you look at the angle of the bird then you've got the secondaries edge-on to the camera. Marsh often shows a wing panel at this angle as they too have pale secondary edges (though thinner than willow, but you'd not see that from this angle).
You can also see that the bird is very puffed-up and rounded, which would also give Marsh a bull-headed appearance in that pose. Also, the underparts aren't warm enough for me, although the lighting isn't good.

pic 3 appears to show a straightforward marsh tit. Good demarcation between the white cheek and the dusky side of the neck behind the ear covert (though lighting's not helpful again), cool colour tone to the underparts, marsh tit jizz.

If it wasn't for pic 2 and that apparent wing panel, I'd say 100% marsh tit, but pic 2 does look a bit willowy. However, when you see how that panel disappears in pic 1 and the bird looks like a good marsh tit in pic 3, then it certainly leans very strongly to Marsh.
 
I'm with Poecile on this one, looks like a Marsh Tit but for pic 2, but as has been said, that could just be down to the angle and trick of the light.
 
Thank you all for your responses and for taking the time to look at the photos.
Opinion seems to be divided so I'll just have to do as suggested and reckon this is the one that got away!

Pity, though...

Oh, for anyone else going over to Lynford this was between the entrance and the Folly at just before 09:00 last Sunday. Just in case it's worth checking out..I guess the views of Hawfinch in the paddock will just have to satisfy me!

Sue
 
Sue.
Looking at pic 3 I am strongly in favour of it being a Marsh. If there was a proper willow tit pale wing panel I am sure it would be visable on pic 1.
See Poeciles comments.
If its in a Marsh Tit dominated area, where Willow was rare, I would be happy to log it as Marsh.
 
the two birds are sometimes so difficult to tell apart,i recently saw a marsh tit on my local patch and the only way i could tell it was a marsh tit was because of the call,the light being as bad as it was late afternoon.I agree with most of the comments though that from pic1 it looks like a marsh but the other two pictures seem too inconclusive it could be either
 
Pic 2 is a Willow Tit in my opinion. There's a very obvious (to me) pale panel inthe wing. This could be because the bird is moving, but I think not....
 
i'd edge to marsh. someone will correct me no doubt ;) but Marsh do sometimes show like the bird in pic two don't they?
 
My first impression was Marsh but like other have said - pic 2 puts a bit of doubt in.

I have loads of experience with Willow Tits round here (quite common - much more so than Marsh), and pics 1 & 3 just don't look like Willows to me - too "clean" looking and that cheek patch is far too bright.

As Poecile says, probably best to let this one go (from these 3 pics), but i think if i had seen the bird in the flesh, i'd be in no doubt it was a Marsh.

Mike
 
Warning! This thread is more than 17 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

S
Willow tit confirmation (Romania)
Replies
3
Views
675
siposi
S
gerald762
Marsh or Willow tit? SE Sweden
Replies
1
Views
643
THE_FERN
T
Stu57
Willow or Marsh Tit
Replies
4
Views
751
Stu57
Stu57
T
Poland. North. 2 birds. Willow or marsh tits
Replies
6
Views
755
KC Foggin
KC Foggin
D
Marsh or Willow Tit, North Wales
Replies
3
Views
799
Bolorumbolo
B

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top