2013 UK orchids (2 Viewers)

[Ghostly Vision]

Here are some pics from today - part 1, all Dune helleborines.

Note the lip has a pinkish centre with a green tip, a wide gap at the base of the outer section, no "bosses" as the base, just smooth bumps. The pollen is crumbling onto the stigma in all cases.

The base of the pedicels is usually pinkish to dark purple.

The ovaries are slightly hairy.

The flowers in many cases today were quite droopy, but on others just below the horizontal.

Almost always with two rows of leaves going up the stem in a graceful form.

Next post has some anomalous plants....

 

[Ghostly Vision]

Here some anomalies.

The first/second (same plant) appears to be Green-flowered, but the ovaries look hairy and the pedicel bases slightly pink. The leaves were classic GFH, few, small and rounded and clasping the stem. The leaf edge pattern can just about be seen, too
The third/fourth (same plant) has a viscidium but otherwise looks like Dune hell - the pollen mass is already crumbling.
The last looked to all intents and purposes like a Broad-leaved, with bosses on the lip, tall, dense flower spike, large rounded leaves, pink bases to pedicels - has is self-pollinated and has hairless ovaries.

Comments anyone?

 

[maslyni]

Yes the Dunes are just getting into their stride and should be good for a while. However I think there are a few GFHs in flower already (see pics and I am happy if you disagree with my identication on these).

Last pic I think is a BLH, complete with twisted ovary. It was surrounded by Dunes however.

Final pic is E. dunensis

Mark

 

[maslyni]

Here some anomalies.

The first/second (same plant) appears to be Green-flowered, but the ovaries look hairy and the pedicel bases slightly pink. The leaves were classic GFH, few, small and rounded and clasping the stem. The leaf edge pattern can just about be seen, too
The third/fourth (same plant) has a viscidium but otherwise looks like Dune hell - the pollen mass is already crumbling.
The last looked to all intents and purposes like a Broad-leaved, with bosses on the lip, tall, dense flower spike, large rounded leaves, pink bases to pedicels - has is self-pollinated and has hairless ovaries.

Comments anyone?

Again final pic surely E. dunensis *

Mark

* As I've said before I would not be at all surprised if many (most/all?) of the inland E. dunensis with pink bases to the pedicels ( cf the coastal var) are introgressed with E. helleborine as in the Scottish bing sites. Unfortunately only var. tynensis has yet been sampled genetically

 

[davidearlgray]

Hybrids maybe Sean?
What's the soil like at this place and has it been imported to this site?
But I agree with your comments, the first two look like GFH, the third Dune and last one BLH!

Cheers,
Dave.

 

[davidearlgray]

But then again,what do I know! I'm not an expert like Mark or Sean...

 

[muba]

Hybrids maybe Sean?
What's the soil like at this place and has it been imported to this site?

Cheers,
Dave.

The west side of Alyn Waters seems to have been farmland 100 years ago according to 6" mile maps of the area. Post war the estate was used for sand and gravel extraction by MacAlpines. After this the east side was used as landfill, but I think the area where the DH grow was just landscaped into a country park - without any infill.

 

[davidearlgray]

Thanks Steve, I 've a got a theory that a lot of these difficult Helleborines is due to the geology of the site. It's interesting to note that Alyn Waters sounds like Messingham were it has inland Dune Helleborines.

Cheers,
Dave.

 

[Bodhyfryd]

Alyn Waters

The west side of Alyn Waters seems to have been farmland 100 years ago according to 6" mile maps of the area. Post war the estate was used for sand and gravel extraction by MacAlpines. After this the east side was used as landfill, but I think the area where the DH grow was just landscaped into a country park - without any infill.

It may be worth noting that most of the comment in the previous postings appears to relate to the Llay side at Alyn Waters. The Gwersyllt side also has a (smaller) population of Dunensis. Interestingly we noted that these were all still in bud (as of Tuesday) when some of the Dune Helleborines on the Llay side were in full flower.

For what it is worth (not a great deal!) the plants which we found and took to be GFH were all, as GV found, in tight bud.

As Alyn Waters is a very local site for us we will hope to visit it fairly frequently over the next couple of weeks to monitor progress of the various populations. It certainly is a very remarkable 'double' site.

Martin and Elaine

 

[muba]

It may be worth noting that most of the comment in the previous postings appears to relate to the Llay side at Alyn Waters. The Gwersyllt side also has a (smaller) population of Dunensis.

Martin and Elaine

Yes, it is the Llay side which has the best populations.
Though the Gwersyllt side has the facilities, today it was almost impossible to park there due to summer holiday activities for kids. And it is apparent that nearly every dog owner takes their pet for a walk there. Check your shoes before your return to the car!

 

[fgrsimon]

I've been told the Green Flowered Helleborines at the Kent site are in good numbers this year. Will be checking them out next week.

Having bottled out of Great Orme/Alyn Waters last weekend due to reports of DRH being over and DH not in flower, does anyone know anywhere I might find the two flowering in reasonably close proximity this weekend?

 

[derby118]

Lindisfarne and Durham

Just back from a long weekend in County Durham and Northumberland, the Lindisfarne Helleborines are well into their stride and some already going over - met up with the Hardy Orchid Society fieldtrip (they'd moved their trip back one weekend, as earlier there were none out and they had a full house of ten attendees; by this weekend the hot conditions had resulted in them moving on apace and regrettably only one person was able to attend - and I discovered the leader was a fellow palaeontologist!). I found a group of ~40, some really small and very few-flowered, but some much larger and photogenic spikes. The marsh helleborines are also starting to expire now... Site wardens were very helpful...

The dark-reds were stunning in Durham, but also starting to get past their best now, though the fragrants are at their height there. Thanks to Iain for info on their progress at this site last week...

From earlier posts whilst I was away, I clearly chose the wrong inland Tyne helleborine site to visit, as I only found two specimens, one not yet in flower, but as the other specimen was in flower and the lip did not curl under, then I'm hoping I did identify it correctly (I need to investigate the photos more closely when I have the time!).

Ian

 

[Ghostly Vision]

I've been told the Green Flowered Helleborines at the Kent site are in good numbers this year. Will be checking them out next week.

Having bottled out of Great Orme/Alyn Waters last weekend due to reports of DRH being over and DH not in flower, does anyone know anywhere I might find the two flowering in reasonably close proximity this weekend?

Your answer came in the post below yours! Tyneside for both close-ish together, or Derbyshire for DRH, then across to Merseyside/Lancs for DH. You'll also get GFH at the latter site.

Sean

 

[ladybee]

Derbyshire DRH site (that I know of anyway) is in a sad state having suffered badly from trampling and squashing of plants. Only one decent flowering plant and that will soon be over.

 

[Ghostly Vision]

Derbyshire DRH site (that I know of anyway) is in a sad state having suffered badly from trampling and squashing of plants. Only one decent flowering plant and that will soon be over.

Thanks, Anne. Time to stop passing details of that site on, I feel!

Sean

 

[LizandDave]

Wouldn't it be better all round to try and educate people instead? I doubt there is deliberate trampling from enthusiasts but there's always a few in every walk of life.

How about photographing the trampling and posting on a trampling thread so people can see the after effects of treading on things? Perhaps they could also be sent to your local council or local nature reserve to put up posters saying be careful or something like that?

Just my thoughts but then I am biaised as I am a beginner (but a very careful one).
Dave

 

[leptochila]

Wouldn't it be better all round to try and educate people instead? I doubt there is deliberate trampling from enthusiasts but there's always a few in every walk of life.

How about photographing the trampling and posting on a trampling thread so people can see the after effects of treading on things? Perhaps they could also be sent to your local council or local nature reserve to put up posters saying be careful or something like that?

Just my thoughts but then I am biaised as I am a beginner (but a very careful one).
Dave

It's a fair point but people will always accidentally trample vegetation at popular sites and the effects will always be higher if more people visit. Putting up signs could also backfire if you limit them to particularly vulnerable locations such as rare orchid populations where you could accidently draw attention to their presence.

The case of the Derbyshire atrorubens site(s) is particularly bad as they've also suffered heavy losses from theft. The colonies are tiny and precarious growing through loose rocks on steep slopes and are thus easy to damage. I still think if you want to see this species, you might as well visit Lancashire or County Durham.

 

[Lorne]

Found this plant in a colony of Heath Spotted orchids in Cumbria, obvious loop markings on the lip and the leaf markings look somewhere between Heath Spotted spots and Common Spotted bars, had I been able to find a Common Spotted nearby I'd have been inclined to think hybrid but Common Spotted not found.

Heath or hybrid? comments please.

Alan

Reminded me of this hybrid by the railway line at Corfe Castle. Nearly a meter high, this Heath Spotted presumed hybrid with Southern Marsh.

 

[ladybee]

It's a fair point but people will always accidentally trample vegetation at popular sites and the effects will always be higher if more people visit. Putting up signs could also backfire if you limit them to particularly vulnerable locations such as rare orchid populations where you could accidently draw attention to their presence.

The case of the Derbyshire atrorubens site(s) is particularly bad as they've also suffered heavy losses from theft. The colonies are tiny and precarious growing through loose rocks on steep slopes and are thus easy to damage. I still think if you want to see this species, you might as well visit Lancashire or County Durham.

I'm afraid a lot of sites are deteriorating, for various reasons. Some of us(all on here I hope) love plants and orchids and are careful but some people are more interested in ticking the box and getting the photograph. If they cared for the habitats they wouldn't trample down fences which allow sheep into the delicate areas, and would look carefully where they trod to get their photo - and also try not to draw attention to what they were doing at the really sensitive sites - that's my humble opinion anyway. I agree with Mike that if you want to see this species it would be best to go to the large colonies.

 

[childhood memories]

heath fragrant

trip to the New forest today - saw lots of bogs but drew a blank at Heath fragrants - went to several sites - was I just looking in the wrong places or is it a bad year?
Any one know of a good site this year?