3 unknown birds. Hainan, China (1 Viewer)

[Hainan on the fly]

Hey all! I have three unknown birds here I'm trying to identify. I'm really bad at putting a species to these rather nondescript type birds. Any suggestions on what I might have would help me learn more about classifying these type of birds and would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Brian

 

[Seth Miller]

1-2) Siberian Stonechats (first is female second is male)
3-4) I think Dusky Warbler, though it looks a little odd.

 

[johnallcock]

1-2. Agree with Siberian/Stejneger's Stonechat. The taxon in southeast China is stejnegeri, which is often treated as a separate species (eg by IOC) but sometimes still treated as a subspecies of Siberian (eg by eBird/Clements).

3-4. Yellow-browed Warbler. It's wet so looks a bit darker than usual, but note the double wing bar and the pale fringes to the tertials.

 

[Seth Miller]

3-4. Yellow-browed Warbler. It's wet so looks a bit darker than usual, but note the double wing bar and the pale fringes to the tertials.

Yeah, that makes more sense. I thought I saw wing bars, but wondered if it was possibly ruffled plumage. The supercilium should've been a give away though...

 

[Hainan on the fly]

1-2) Siberian Stonechats (first is female second is male)
Thanks Seth, I see the male for a Siberian Stonechat now. I think the lighter colored crown threw me off a little.

Cheers,

Brian

 

[Hainan on the fly]

1-2. Agree with Siberian/Stejneger's Stonechat. The taxon in southeast China is stejnegeri, which is often treated as a separate species (eg by IOC) but sometimes still treated as a subspecies of Siberian (eg by eBird/Clements).



3-4. Yellow-browed Warbler. It's wet so looks a bit darker than usual, but note the double wing bar and the pale fringes to the tertials.

1-2) I'm still very confused about taxonomy but am slowly learning. In Hainan I seem to find occasionally find individuals that look slightly different that what I'm seeing when I reverence them on Oriental Bird Images, where the pictures are often taken at more frequently visited locations. When a subspecies is referred to, I'm assuming the common name of the bird is the same but the genus species name is different? Is this correct?
3-4) Thank you very much for adding the extra details that helped you identify this bird. I've posted a picture to make sure I am understanding what you have mentioned. If you happen to have the time to look at it, that would be much appreciated. I've circled and marked "A" which I think is the double wing bar pattern you mentioned and circled "B" which I'm seeing as the "pale fringes to the tertials."

Your insight is always appreciated!

Brian

 

[Seth Miller]

1-2) When a subspecies is referred to, I'm assuming the common name of the bird is the same but the genus species name is different? Is this correct?

Definition of subspecies from Merriam Webster: "a category in biological classification that ranks immediately below a species and designates a population of a particular geographic region genetically distinguishable from other such populations of the same species and capable of interbreeding successfully with them where its range overlaps theirs"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/subspecies

Subspecies often have the same common name but sometimes they can have slightly different ones, and the genus and species names are also the same. If a bird is a different subspecies say you have a Black Kite (milvus migrans) You could have a kite of the black-eared subspecies Milvus migrans lineatus or a "Small Indian Kite" Milvus migrans migrans. They are both black kites with the same Latin name down to species, but are different subspecies.

3-4) Thank you very much for adding the extra details that helped you identify this bird. I've posted a picture to make sure I am understanding what you have mentioned. If you happen to have the time to look at it, that would be much appreciated. I've circled and marked "A" which I think is the double wing bar pattern you mentioned and circled "B" which I'm seeing as the "pale fringes to the tertials."

Looks like you got it.


Hope this all helps a bit.

 

[johnallcock]

1-2) I'm still very confused about taxonomy but am slowly learning. In Hainan I seem to find occasionally find individuals that look slightly different that what I'm seeing when I reverence them on Oriental Bird Images, where the pictures are often taken at more frequently visited locations. When a subspecies is referred to, I'm assuming the common name of the bird is the same but the genus species name is different? Is this correct?

Hopefully Seth's explanation has helped to clarify this. Basically, a subspecies is a difference in plumage between two geographically separate populations of a species. You might find that many of the images on OBI are from India or Southeast Asia, where many species look slightly different from individuals of the same species in South China.

Wagtails are a good example that will be relevant to you on Hainan - you may encounter several subspecies of White Wagtail that are clearly different in the head pattern or colour of the back, but are all the same species.

3-4) Thank you very much for adding the extra details that helped you identify this bird. I've posted a picture to make sure I am understanding what you have mentioned. If you happen to have the time to look at it, that would be much appreciated. I've circled and marked "A" which I think is the double wing bar pattern you mentioned and circled "B" which I'm seeing as the "pale fringes to the tertials."

Yes, you're absolutely right :t: I think the pale fringes to the tertials are slightly easier to see in the second picture.

I pointed out these two features because these are useful for identification of Yellow-browed Warbler. You will soon learn that there are a number of very similar warbler species in China and they can be very difficult to identify. We often have discussions about identification here on BirdForum. You will gradually learn which features to look for, but they are one of the most difficult groups of birds for beginners. If you're not sure, you can always ask us here.


Some of these terms can be confusing when you first start birding. Don't worry if you struggle to begin with, and feel free to ask for help here - we have all been through that learning process!

 

[mjh73]

Basically, a subspecies is a difference in plumage between two geographically separate populations of a species.

Except they don't need to have differences in plumage, and they don't need to be geographically separate....

 

[Hainan on the fly]

Hope this all helps a bit.

Yes, it is very helpful! Thanks for the clear explanation, I really appreciate you taking the time!

Thanks,

Brian

 

[Hainan on the fly]

Some of these terms can be confusing when you first start birding. Don't worry if you struggle to begin with, and feel free to ask for help here - we have all been through that learning process!

Thanks John! I'm slowly picking up on the jargon and applying what I am learning in the field. So many people have been helpful in this community. I can't imagine the steepness of the learning curve without the support. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.

Cheers,

Brian